I don’t know, this person has done a lot of decent things in his life. I’m not inclined to judge him by his worst decision.
While I would tend to agree, if I’m reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing… meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.
He’s also an old friend.
I don’t believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn’t get it, doesn’t make them monsters or rapists by proxy.
If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.
Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn’t all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.
Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our “justice,” lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people… that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee’s failure to confirm their biases.
Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn’t be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it’s convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.
Or… we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don’t give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don’t need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.
Thank you for making my point.
Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?
So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!
Don’t be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution… AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse… I’d absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.
There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There’s zero chance that I’d do anything to “put in a good word” for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.
Tl;Dr: If you’re vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn’t being a duplicitous rapist… that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren’t raping. You’re also a victim.
Masterson demonstrated no mercy in raping his victims.
Our society demonstrating no mercy to those our society failed, and we did at some point for most felons if not Masterson, just makes us another link in the chain of cruelty. Mercy should always be considered, at every step, especially if we as a society espouse to be better than those we prosecute.
Justice isn’t for pleasure, vengeance is. If you’re feeling good about anyone’s suffering, Masterson or his victims, that isn’t a sense of justice you’re feeling.
Not writing a letter to the judge isn’t vengeance.
This is some I’m 16 and this is deep bullshit. The point is we have a process in place to convict and sentence people charged with crimes. Once he was found guilty do his friends need to abandon him? No. But do they need to actually have him show a change BEFORE they show “leniency”. Yes. Your whole argument is so dumb it borders if not crosses over into making you a rape apologist.
those our society failed
Are you trying to tell me that Society failed Danny Masterson? Do you proof read what you write? No. Society failed the women that he raped. Society fails the millions that will die of treatable disease this year. Society fails the single mother that has to work three jobs to support herself and her child. Society did not, I repeat, did not fail Danny Masterson. Society taught him that rape is bad. Danny decided to do it anyway. Danny failed society.
I hope you’re a thirteen year old otherwise this is some sad, pathetic shit.
Was there physical evidence on these? I’d feel the same way, but what if you didn’t think they did it? Not say that’s what this is. I have no clue.
There was a whole court case about it.
“I know nothing about this but I question the legitimacy of the court’s decision” is a bizarre take.
I have no clue.
Correct. You fucking sure don’t.
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Except this isn’t about Masterson. This is about Kutcher’s support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that’s not a friend. That’s someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you’ve hidden that from me, I’m not going to tell a judge you’re an otherwise good person that shouldn’t be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.
If you really don’t believe that these are people that did something wrong, that they should be shunned for the rest of their days by every living being, where’s the virtue in even keeping a felon alive? Why don’t we just have a door to a firepit in every jury courtroom that opens upon a guilty Verdict? Why pretend to weigh punishment with mercy, but still set them up for failure in every possible way?
Honest question, do we want to be a benevolent society that sees a fallen member, and wants to help them reintegrate after their just punishment, or is mercy as a positive thing in our society as stone dead a concept as greed being a negative thing?
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Not writing a letter asking for leniency is not shunning as well as is not vengeance.
I’m not saying that we need to flog the guilty. I’m just saying that we don’t need to offer him more help than anyone else would get. Is Kutcher writing letters to every judge involved in a rape case and asking for them to go easy because the perp was a youth pastor? Justice is supposed to be blind. If celebrities, politicians, etc. get special treatment then we aren’t working to fix society, we are letting people in power run around doing whatever the fuck they want. Masterson should receive all the help the justice system affords a rapist, but not one bit more, and definitely not because he has celebrity friends writing letters on his behalf.
For just about any other crime I’d tend to agree with the sentiment, but for nearly any other crime I can come up with some hypothetical scenario where that crime is justifiable, where I can comprehend the reasoning behind the act.
I can’t come up with any hypothetical where rape or sexual assault is justifiable.
It’s never justifiable, agreed, but I disagree that it cannot be understood or that the victimizer deserves special worse punishment or consideration. Before we tested for people on the spectrum, people that legitimately lacked the capacity of impulse control were executed like anyone else. Now courts bicker about how low functioning you have to be for such things.
Some people are born very low functioning and never get diagnosed, or throttle that line, and weren’t raised well, etc. Americans in general often refuse to see such nuance in such cases. They prefer to imagine a fair black and white world where every rapist is some evil mastermind when often they aren’t in control of themselves any of the time. It’s not like our mental healthcare system is robust enough to identify and mitigate those issues for poor kids who need it.
I’m sure there are regular and high functioning rapists, like Weinstein and statutory rapists, but I rarely see a differentiation between those calculated actors and some barely sapient person with sporatic impulse control who really doesn’t have the capacity to empathize with their victim or consider the consequences, but squeaked by on the mental competence review. Those are worlds apart imho and should be treated as such.
Im just boggled at the mind at how concerned you are for the mechanics of rapists and how there’s something that makes them rape people and don’t seem to be at all concerned with the effects they have on those they raped.
I see this whole devils advocate thing and like whatever this is internet share your peace, but I just can’t understand how lacking empathy for the people you hurt in any way should lessen the consequences of the impact you cause. Context does not excuse consequences. I’m sure Masterson is sick in the head, you’d have to be to rape someone as maliciously, viciously, and violently as he did. I just hope you’re also out here advocating for more support to the victims who are now also sick from the trauma that was directly caused by this man’s actions.
Sure, let someone who according to you can’t control themselves back on the street and give him a lighter sentence. I’m sure he won’t go out and rape again since his lack of control apparently stops once he’s caught and convicted. We should just wait to see if he does it again and say “ooops, his bad let’s try another 5 years” to his next victim and send her off with hopefully a good ass therapist for the rest of her life since that’s how long the rape is going to affect her.
You talk about society lacking nuance but your nuance seems to extend only to the rapist and his buddies. They were not advocating for him to be rehabilitated. They were asking for him to get less time since “his daughter not having a father” would be an injustice. Sure, he’s been convicted of rape, but the injustice of the law here would be his daughter visiting him in jail where he’s not raping people. Now if Kutcher was like “he’s clearly sick, I hope you find an alternative to prison that helps rehabilitate him so he won’t harm others” I could see your point. That’s not what he said. That’s not what he was asking for. People are angry because it’s enraging to see celebrities and rich people get special treatment. Use each other’s fame to hurt others and escape consequences. Your worry about a lack of nunca is funnily enough so black and white in its arguments, you could say it in and of itself lacks nuance to how complicated the subject and ramifications of rape on a person actually are.
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For rape??? Vengeance. Not some magical rehab for sex offenders
You’re the most honest and/or self-aware one of the “string em up” crowd here. Thank you.
You acknowledge where your stance comes from. I respect that, sincerely.
I think through introspection, education, and rehabilitation most criminals can work toward enlightenment and betterment. But sex offenders commit the most heinous of all crimes and deserve no extra consideration. They are blemishes in human evolution and are plagues on decency and humanity. At the absolute very best, they should be locked away from the rest of us
Yeah alright
Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However… the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That’s a bad fucking look. That’s a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he’s done look.
It doesn’t make them rapists by proxy, but it does make them someone who believes the rapist they like should be the exception.
Is it really for an exception? Or just not making it any longer due to additional bad character traits?
My understanding is they look at the range of acceptable punishment, and then use these factors to determine where it should land. Providing a letter explaining his character would serve to put it on the lower end of it. It’s not so much an exception as it is just providing evidence for the court to make an informed decision for the range.
He didn’t get convicted of rape and being unlikeable. He was convicted of rape. The penalty being assessed is the penalty for rape. Whatever else he may have done, good or bad, he did the rape. He should pay the penalty for the rape that he did. If he collects money for disabled children on Sundays, he shouldn’t be punished less, he should pay the penalty for rape. If he’s a jerk who gets drunk on weeknights and starts his political opinions with “I’m not racist, but…” he shouldn’t be penalized additionally for that. He should be penalized for rape. This thing where we make room for “He’s a rapist, but…” is fucking garbage. It reeks of Brock Turner’s dad trying to reduce the lifetime of harm his son inflicted on a woman to “10 minutes of action”. If a rapist who operates a puppy rescue is less of a rapist than a rapist who does other things we all agree to be unpleasant then it’s not about the harm inflicted, it’s about how much we all generally like the rapist.
I agree with you in principle. But that isn’t how the judicial system works. Usually there’s a minimum, which is the actual punishment for the crime. Then there’s the maximum which is what they give you if you’re a repeat offender or they just generally think you’re an extra shitty person.
Given that, someone with otherwise good character is expected to get the minimum, which is the time for the crime without getting extra. In this case that minimum is 30 years.
But yeah, if you want to talk about how shit the judicial system is, I agree. I could go on about plea bargains, penalty ranges, etc being used as tools of oppression.
He’s a repeat offender. He was convicted on multiple counts. Strictly speaking, he’s not just a rapist, he’s a serial rapist.
But I do think we’d agree about plea bargains. They let the guilty off scot free and let the overworked, underfunded judicial system off the hook when it comes to innocent defendants.
Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn’t grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they’re free to do that. But disapproving of that isn’t guilt by association, that’s just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.
They said he was a role model
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The occasional slip up and forced rape is just a minor character flaw then
It’s not like he just stole a car or something. Rapists deserve the worst punishments we have to offer.
In other words, whether Ashton Kutcher is actually guilty of anything does not matter, because a “bad look” is like a virus, and conviction enough for people to feel justified in upending his life / work. So proud of this brave new neo-puritanical world we live in today. /s
What’s the new, hip term for witch-hunt in 2023?
You’re right, this kind of thing is nothing new. We’ve always been a society which will turn on a dime on anyone, no matter how good or poor the excuse, if given a good pretext to do so. It seems to be human nature.
Never give up a free chance to step on another human being to make oneself feel taller. Give them a few kicks while they are down for good measures. All made extra easy by the internet and cancel culture!
I think it’s something to do with fear of it happening to them, so they do unto others before others can do unto them.
Rape them before they can rape you
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meaning he was already convicted of rape
The letters are typically asked for before conviction as a just-in-case. He’s still asking for leniency for his rapist buddy I just thought I’d clarify that little bit.
Several of the letters make mention of his conviction. Someone posted them above.
Although I tend to agree, I think this was also the correct decision. He would have distracted from the good work the organisation does.
While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.
The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.
https://www.thorn.org/blog/encryption-trend-threatens-child-safety-gains/
Get out of here with your reason. That’s not what the internet is for. Now, would you like a torch or pitchfork?
I’ll take the Torchfork
If that isn’t already the name of some obscure software or package/library/etc I’ll be disappointed it already sounds like I need to import it into my Python code idk what it does but without it shit just crashes
The Torchfork really ties the program together
https://pytorch.org/docs/stable/generated/torch.jit.fork.html
I’m not a coder, but I found this in like, 5 seconds.
Cooks your food while you’re eating it!
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Any way we can combine the two and make a flaming pitchfork? Maybe a knife-wrench kinda configuration?
Johnson, give this man a promotion
I prefer the tar and feathers.
Can I try that forktorch that’s behind the counter?
I’ll need to see some ID.
Damn it jerkface, I told you not to go handing out the forktorch. I don’t care that you asked for id, the forktorch is for VIP ragers only.
I’ve got four stamps on my Valued Customer card! This is ridiculous. I need to speak to your manager now!
That was reasonable? They didn’t even respond to my comment but instead just gave a boilerplate enlightened centrist response which is meaningless.
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I think it’s fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That’s a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.
directly involved with covering up a rapist
This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that’s a gigantic leap.
his true character
And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person’s character, a mistake presumably you’d never make?
I think it’s fair to judge
No, you think it’s fun to judge and it’s your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You’ve made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it “fair”?
Writing a letter with the intent of reducing the sentence of a convicted rapist counts as a coverup in my book.
Also, individuals who continue to defend rapists are not good people. Doesn’t matter if they are friends.
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The judge misspelled “Actual Rapist Allen Turner, formerly known as Brock Turner”
Tell your friends! He’s going by his middle name now
His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.
Condemn him? No. Judge him? Yeah, a little bit.
I mean… He tocuhed a door knob and didn’t know it was a crime scene to report.
You were there?
I was there as much as the guy who said he didn’t report a crime was.
Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.
Dammit, now I’m about to go down the rabbit hole after watching that video, so thanks
OK, now think of this from the perspective of the victims of Danny Masterson’s crimes - what do you think they feel about Ashton’s letter of support?
That we can say Kutcher was wrong for supporting Masterson while also acknowledging that Kutcher has done good things. People aren’t good or bad, they are a mixture. Condemn the bad traits and praise the good traits.
So it’s ok that he rapes people? Vomit
Of course not. You know that, I know that, everyone reading this knows that, you are just being a troll. Stop, or get blocked.
Oh ok. Then what point are you trying to make? It’s not ok for him to rape people but you won’t judge him for it? Got it.
I think one of you is talking about Masterson and the other is talking about Kutcher.
Yea, I get it, some will disagree but, in the end, I’m a bigger fan of “call out culture” than “cancel culture”. The former gives the person a chance to course-correct.
But “cancel culture” makes keyboard warriors and the Twitterverse feel saintly, holier-than-thou and powerful because it takes just a few tweets to mess people up! And look righteous while doing it!
Maybe they are valuable members of society after all! /s
You gonna pin the tail on cancel culture and “The Twitterverse” for criminals like Jeffrey Epstein being outed too? Lmao you’re a joke. Masterson RAPED WOMEN, many more of them than the mere handful that were included in the case, i promise you. And his friends went out of their way to use their influence and names to sway a judge in his favor. That’s fucked up, and anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
I’m not talking about Masterson, Epstein and their crimes - I’m talking about Kutcher, who has done more to help anti-child trafficking than all you keyboard warriors put together. Guilt by association is not a thing, despite how much you get off on it and want to wish it into reality.
anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
Witch hunt 101, anyone? You’re so excited to judge, sentence and exert perverse power over another person’s life, you don’t even realize you are doing the exact same thing as history’s witch hunt instigators, under the guise of a modern, rebranded religion.
Is that quote taken directly out of his letter supporting his rapist buddy?
Unfortunately, it doesnt matter how much good you’ve done. People love witch hunts. Whether this is his worst decision or not, it’s one decision, now the rest are erased.
He’s done good and would continue to, but people are happier if he is never heard from again rather than him helping kids for the rest of his life.
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It occurs to me that Kutcher and co might not have had access to the court proceedings, testimony, and evidence, but might have had a lot of access to Masterton’s side of the story.
It also occurs to me that being friends with people is complicated and that bad people emotionally loan shark a lot - maybe they felt obligated to send letters of support because they were being guilt tripped about all he’d done for them or because they think being a good friend is supporting no matter what (aka being an enabler).
All that said, Kutcher’s a grown up adult who should have been able to predict that supporting a sex abuser is going to conflict with being involved in an anti-sex abuse organization.
It is a pattern, he had done the same thing before.
From Wikipedia:
“In November 2011, Kutcher received heavy criticism for his tweet in response to the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal, calling the firing of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno “in poor taste”. Kutcher subsequently turned over management of his Twitter account to his team at the Katalyst Media company.”
Edit:
The more I read his past I find more disturbing statement that shows red flags.
“Bixler and others have cited additional ways in which Kutcher showed questionable behavior in the past, specifically pointing to a 2003 video of the actor speaking on his MTV show “Punk’d” about actress Hilary Duff. In the video, Kutcher says Duff, who was a minor at the time, is “one of the girls that we’re all waiting for to turn 18. Along with the Olsen twins.””
Back then, that was a pretty damn normal thing for people to say. It’s really awful that that it was so normal, but hopefully most people regret saying things like that now.
It was not normal for a lot of people. But those people were silenced. I’m kinda tired that people are using era as an excuse. What it was is a strong, few influencers allowed assholes to fly their asshole flag out in the open. They encouraged it. It was called edgy. It was called bold. It was called confidence. It was called a lot of things that were all considered positive attributes. Even funny. And a lot of that is how the media back then promoted ideas.
Meanwhile the people who weren’t assholes were called ‘pussies’ by the assholes. In todays world, the ‘pussies’ of yesterday are what we consider normal people today. The people who were stomped on, shut up and quiet. Now that they are allowed to freely fly their ‘we don’t have to shit on others’ flag,
we’re assuming way many people changed. When it’s really just a tip of the balance on who’s collective ideas are more fit for the current time.
We still have the assholes of yesteryear snowflaking they are the victims of the media and complaining about ‘PC’ and cancel culture, balking at the mere idea of consequence for words and actions. These people didn’t collectively change with the times. They’d crawl back to the yesteryear in a second to be celebrated as an asshole if they could.
Sure, Some people may have grown and changed from being the asshole. I have a small handful of relatives that cringe at who they once were, who’s ideas they once followed and they’ve grown as people. But I have enough relatives who also complain about the change and mill on about the good ol days where they could silence everyone who they didn’t agree with/escape culpability.
don’t be fooled for a second that there isn’t still a lot of people who are assholes. We’re just celebrating a different set of rules now to ethically follow now since the metoo movement made its debut and the once quiet people are safer to speak up. Those quiet people aren’t silenced anymore. They just get called PC instead of pussy by the assholes now. That’s as far as the assholes have evolved in today’s world.
You must be some kind of mind reader because otherwise your post would just be a bunch of smug assumptions. It’s important to allow people to grow. If you only ever judge people by where they were at their worst, then no one will want to change and the only people you’ll judge to be good are the people you didn’t know about when they were at their worst.
Sure, Some people may have grown and changed from being the asshole. I have a small handful of relatives that cringe at who they once were, who’s ideas they once followed and they’ve grown as people.
It was absolutely normal lol. It was also clearly a joke.
That’s why you won’t find a single contemporary piece freaking out about an episode of Punk’d.
I know you weren’t born yet at the time, but some of us were adults then.
I’m probably older than you. You clearly make a lot of assumptions to make yourself feel right. Nice, pompous, bad faith way to engage people.
There is no way you’d not have memory of this time period as a Gen X or older person. Times are indeed changing. Society is indeed improving.
danny was already convicted of the rapes when kutcher wrote the letter, saying that danny was an outstanding citizen.
The 8 people that downvoted you are the type of people that love cancel culture.
Ashton was shitty defending his friend. Ashton does not deserve the backlash he is receiving for the exact reasons you describe.
Then again, Lemmy was up in arms over the LTT situation, and all of my comments saying “hey, lets wait to hear both sides” were HEAVILY downvoted.
Fake internet points don’t matter anyways
Didn’t say they do. Stop trying to undermine my comment by replying about something unrelated.
Nuance is dead, unfortunately.
I’m somewhat familiar with the case as I follow an ex-scientologist dude on yt (youtube.com/@GrowingUpInScientology) who was present in the court and reported on all nuances. According to him, Kutcher knew about Masterson’s drugging raping habit, also personally knew one of the women named in the case that prosecuted him (she was also present when Kutcher, upon finding her murdered girlfriend, instead calling 911, called his agent and Masterson).
Said letter’s general purpose to the judge is to ask for a lighter sentence in light of the jury decision, and they try to make him look like the nicest person ever walked on earth, always respecting woman and against all drugs that quasi questions the sentence as is. They deserve the backlash.
This is typical garbage. You’re literally imitating the townspeople from the “change the racist flag” episode of South Park.
I don’t get what they were thinking, how could they write a character letter for a convinced rapist? “Ya but he never raped us!”
Someone in a comment a few days ago, who was themselves asked to write such a letter for someone they knew who was charged and ultimately convicted, made an excellent observation:
Defense attorneys are very likely to have requested those character reference letters way before the case even made it to trial. So it’s entirely possible that Kutcher and Kunis wrote those letters long ago, based on information they had at the time, probably thinking the charges were unfounded.
Now, obviously, the easy solution to that would be if they were to come out now and tell whether that happened or not, and make clear what they think now. Which is what I would do, but I’m also not a Hollywoo celebrity with publicists and handlers and lawyers.
If I’m not mistaken, Kutcher’s letter actually referenced the verdict.
Oh well fuck him, then.
Right?! There has to be missing info.
Why would someone take a stand against abuse, but defend an old friend found guilty of that offense.
Also- why should Ashton resign? If anything, he should redouble his efforts. Smells of cowardice.
I’m gonna rely on my tried and true method of “take the good and leave the bad”. Rich/famous folk live in a different world that I’d rather not spend too much time thinking about. I will continue to appreciate power being used to benefit the entirety of this world, though. Greedy people like rewards as much as or probably more than peasants like me.
“Also- why should Ashton resign? If anything, he should redouble his efforts. Smells of cowardice.”
A spokesperson who is now the lightning rod for an issue that will detract from the message the organisation is trying to espouse, is a bad spokesperson.
Bristol Palin the national spokesperson for teen abstinence. 🙄
She’s actually not at all. But you might in fact be the spokesperson for misguided pregnancies.
The thing you don’t want to admit is that Kutcher doesn’t actually consider being a serial rapist a deal breaker for his friends.
As to why he would defend that, it’s just simple relationship bias. We’ll hesitate a hell of a lot more if it’s someone we like or think we know.
You should have seen the irrational tenacity with which one of my parents stuck by a pedophile, right up until their first few nights in prison, simply because they were dating. Even if it meant losing everyone around her. She was the only person under god who couldn’t see this a mile away. His own kid was his first accuser, but surely not, right?
What kind of thing could your best friends do that you wouldn’t initially defend them over?
These two have known each other for literal decades. I’m not too surprised he would refuse to accept it from someone he’s been friends with for that long.
I am shocked that he would choose to step down entirely over it. I could see the question presenting itself to him, since it’s…not wonderful PR…but I would have thought the cause itself would have been more important to him. He’s between a rock and a hard place.
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Yeah my understanding was that these were post conviction. And if that were the case why weren’t there a bunch more letters from all the other cast members. Unless they knew. I bet Topher knew…
I mean…
If he wasn’t found guilty, who would see the letter?
I saw that comment too. It shed a lot of light on a topic that I personally don’t know much about.
On the other hand, sometimes people can get weird about sticking up for their friends under any circumstances. My parents and brother are weird that way. One example - they know a rich white kid who killed an entire family by driving drunk. The kid’s own family disowned him. They didn’t help with his legal support, his twin brother cut ties with anyone who supported him, and he did time in the state prison. I don’t know the details about the crime, but he had graduated from a flagship state university and was from a very wealthy family. Not “paid for a wing at the local hospital wealthy” but definitely, “has a regulation size basketball court in their basement” wealthy. He absolutely fit the profile of Brock Allen Turner (the rapist).
He still got 5-10 years in state. It must have been bad. My family stepped up to support this asshole.
My brother routinely visited him in prison and gave him a job when he got out. I don’t really fault my brother for that. (OK - I judge him a bit. The kid was always an asshole and he killed people. But he did his time.)
On the other hand, my parents have nothing but good things to say about this guy and generally act like he was the victim of a huge conspiracy by the state. They were also offended that their own personal friend “Stanley” was sent to old people prison (nursing home) for “no reason” after he threatened to shoot his nephew. It was a credible threat, too. Stan is very well armed and had been going off his rocker for more than a few years.
tl/dr - my family are assholes but if they decide you’re a ride or die friend it doesn’t matter what you’ve done
Not commenting is also an option for you, just for future reference.
Because God forbid we try and understand?
I don’t think that’s weird. Your family are just assholes sticking together with another asshole.
This makes sense and it’s kind of what I thought has happened. No one could really be that unaware as to write a character reference for someone convicted and not expect backlash. But why wouldn’t they just say that then ? Why not make a statement saying the reference was old, and they’re shocked and disappointed someone they trusted could do such a thing.
That’s what I don’t understand
You’re lying or spreading incorrect information.
If you’re doing it maliciously: stop it.
If you’re just an idiot, stop it.
But he mentors other actors! And he doesn’t take drugs!
I really don’t know what either of them were thinking. Rapists don’t need leniency, especially in this situation.
I’m sure that’s not what was in his letter.
If your question is merely about public relations, sure it’s a terrible move. But I think there’s actually a more meaningful question underlying all this furor; what are the limits of friendship or love? What is one supposed to do when someone close does something horrible? Cast them aside? Pretend you never knew them?
Kutcher must have had some idea of the risk he was taking, but he did it anyway. I find that striking. For some people friendships can be like family. I feel like this is an older sentiment that doesn’t find expression often today. Would you find it appalling if Masterson’s mother spoke on behalf of his character, or should she likewise keep her distance?
I don’t know. It all just seems more complicated and tragic than the typical social media mob can process.
If Masterson’s mother ran a non-profit that helped rape victims it would be a conflict of interest for her to write a character reference for her rapist son.
As it was here for Kutcher and it damaged his reputation badly.
Otherwise appreciate your post. There are a lot of interesting questions in it about human nature.
Personally, I think the church of scientology black mailed him into writing this. That Masterson spilled some dirt to his cult.
Ashton plays an idiot on tv but I don’t think he’s that dumb in real life. So my bet is blackmail.
They likely assumed it wouldn’t get out. They were banking on being able to use their celebrity to try and influence the outcome.
I knew a guy, generally a good guy, and he helped me out when I was young.
Anyways, he made some bad choices (namely cheating on his fiance with his childhood bestie), knocked said girl up, they got married… they had another kid… a few years later this relationship turned sour, and I was rarely hearing from him. I later learned he was living out of his car at times.
At one point during this mess he told me his soon to be ex wife invited him over one night, they slept together, then he woke up with the cops in his face and her accusing him of raping her last night.
I didn’t know what to think of it at the time, and I still don’t. The person I thought I knew never would’ve cheated on his fiance… surely he wouldn’t have raped someone.
Unlike this story, the charges for the guy I know were dropped and he wasn’t prosecuted, let alone convicted. Maybe it was just a ploy for a better outcome in the divorce? That seems to be the conclusion the police drew. If it had gone to trial and he’d been convicted… I probably wouldn’t have written a similar letter? But also maybe it would’ve been in some ways good for the judge to see not just this person at their worst moments but at better moments? What if the evidence wasn’t strong? What if I hadn’t followed the case closely?
I haven’t heard from this guy in years at this point, hence why I’m avoiding the word friend. However at one point, he was a friend … and I don’t find it so easy to reconcile the “person you know” with the “person you’ve been told you know”
I think it’s more about that difficulty reconciling, than “he never raped me.” If they weren’t lying in their letters as well… maybe this should just be considered part of the process? Like, yes Masterson committed the crime, now who else was he? Did he contribute nothing to society except for being a vicious Hollywood predator? etc.
The scientology thing adds a whole other angle here…
Anyways, the point is it’s easy to not understand why someone would do something, but that doesn’t mean it’s not understandable (it doesn’t mean it’s justified either).
All the letters have one thing in common though: they’re overly saccharine and suspiciously dodgy (actually that’s two things, sorry). It’s like they’re trying to describe a modern-day Beaver Cleaver.
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But for real, I think announcing support for a rapist is different than feeling sympathetic for an old friend.
In this case, it’s actually not.
Fuck websites that make the video follow you while you scroll.
Thanks for saving me a click bud
Just for that I’m giving them an anti-click!
Well, it is not as much as a “non profit fighting human trafficking” as they sell it. It is a tech org that sells facial recognition technology to law enforcement, that doesn’t really help saving kids, but rather persecute consensual and voluntary sex workers.
It is what happens when tech Bros want to try and save the world without really listening to the vulnerable people they are trying to “help”.
Now his hypocrisy was exposed for defending a convicted rapist because “he was nice to me” no shit Ashton, im sure Epstein was also nice to his friends.
that doesn’t really help saving kids, but rather persecute consensual and voluntary sex workers.
I’d love a citation on this if you’ve got it.
Listen to a recent episode about it from the podcast There’s No Girl On The Internet.
Here’s some sources too.
Sex, lies, and surveillance: Something’s wrong with the war on sex trafficking: https://www.engadget.com/2019-05-31-sex-lies-and-surveillance-fosta-privacy.html
Real Men Get Their Facts Straight: https://www.villagevoice.com/real-men-get-their-facts-straight/
Ashton Kutcher Claims He Helped Cops Save Way More Sex-Trafficking Victims Than Authorities Say They’ve Found: https://reason.com/2017/02/15/ashton-kutcher-plays-sex-worker-savior/
The bogus claim that 300,000 U.S. children are ‘at risk’ of sexual exploitation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/05/28/the-bogus-claim-that-300000-u-s-children-are-at-risk-of-sexual-exploitation/
SEX TRAFFICKING Online Platforms and Federal Prosecutions : chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-385.pdf
What it is just used for prosecuting adult non-trafficed sex workers?? That’s such a ridiculous perversion of the original mission statement, what a piece of shit. “Helping” sex workers by making them go to prison lol, which is the same way police “help” people with substance abuse problems. He was also an investor in Uber so it’s adds up that he only cares for making money.
That’s such a ridiculous perversion of the original mission statement
This is a reason to request some form of evidence from OP, rather than assume the worst of the lauded organization
The reason Epstein was undetected or untouched was because he was nice. Getting along means not getting caught. Now that doesn’t mean that everyone nice is up to something, but it means it is a reason he was able to infiltrate so many upper crust circles.
Wow, there a a lot of people here defending a rapist apologist.
Disappointing.
People are complicated. We can say he did good things for kids while also doing bad things like defending Masterson. We can admit it must be hard for him to condemn his friend while also still saying he still needed to.
People can do both good and bad things, we can say the good things he did are good while also saying he shouldn’t have done bad things.
People like you are not good for my pitchfork and torch business.
He could have not written a letter of support or condemnation. Sometimes no comment is the right way.
*Topher Grace has entered the chat
I thought he kicked himself from the server though?
I mean I feel one thing overweights the other… Like it was a fucking piece of paper…yeah he shouldn’t have done it. But I feel like whatever the org did matter more that a stupid written paper.
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Exactly this. There was some good coverage in the German podcast Logbuch Netzpolitik. Ashton is also involved in companies selling software to “solve” the CSAM issue with methods the scientific community says will not solve it and most likely will make everything worse, not only in the topic but also others like privacy overall.
Did he actually do good though? Or did you assume?
Whether you like it or not Kutchers childrens charities do in fact help kids. Their software helps identify children who are being abused online and also help create tools to detect and block CSAM. But don’t take my word for it, here’s their 2022 impact report. https://www.thorn.org/impact-report-2022/
So yes. Turns out he’s not literal Satan and he has done good things and bad.
But don’t take my word for it, here’s their 2022 impact report. https://www.thorn.org/impact-report-2022/
“…but don’t take my word for it… Take theirs!”
Funny
Got it, so nothing I say is convincing. So there’s no need to continue this.
It’s a personal pet peeve of mine when articles reference documents with no link. I prefer to read stuff for myself and come to my own conclusions.
Link to the letters in question
#Asthon Kutcher’s letter#
Honorable Judge Olmedo,
My name is Ashton Kutcher I am an actor, investor, philanthropist, and most importantly a father. I met Danny Masterson when I was 20 years old in 1998. He instantly became a friend, dedicated co worker, and role model to me. And has remained as such for 25 years.
As a friend, Danny has been nothing but a positive influence on me. He’s an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being. Over 25 year relationship I don’t ever recall him lying to me. He’s taught me about being direct and confronting issues in life and relationships head-on, resolving them, and moving forward. Danny is a person that is consistently there for you when you need him. We’ve traveled around the world together, raised our daughters together, and shared countless family moments. Not only is he a good friend to me I’ve witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have.
As a role model, Danny has consistently been an excellent one. I attribute not falling into the typical Hollywood life of drugs directly to Danny. Any time that we were to meet someone or interact with someone who was on drugs, or did drugs, he made it clear that that wouldn’t be a good person to be friends with. And for me, that was an implication that if I were to do drugs, he wouldn’t want to be friends with me, which is something I never would want to risk or jeopardize. I am grateful to him for that positive peer pressure. He also set an extraordinaryy standard around how you tteat other people. There was an incident where we were at a pizza parlor and a belligerent man entered who is berating his girlfriend. We had never met or seen these people before, but Danny was the first person to jump to the defense of this girl. It was an incident he didn’t have to get involved i:i but proactively chose to because the way this man was behaving was not right. He has always treated people with decency, equality, and generosity.
After 9-11 Danny was a huge advocate for support of the Firefighters effected by the event, rallying his friends and coworkers to pitch in however they could. Danny had his daughter a year before I had mine. He set a standard of being a hands on dad. We have spent countless
hours together with our kids and he is among few people that I would trust to be alone with my son and daughter. He’s also a dedicated and loyal husband with unwavering commitment to his wife.
We have spent hundreds of hours working together. Danny takes his job seriously. He is kind, courteous, and hard working. He treated everyone from the grips to the teamsters to the actors to the caterers as equals. He showed up on time all the time and always pulled his weight. We have also traveled around the world together promoting our work. I can honestly say that no matter where we were, or who we were with, I never saw my friend be anything other than the guy I have described.
While I’m aware that the judgement has been cast as guilty on two counts of rape by force and the victims have a great desire for justice. I hope that my testament to his character is taken into consideration in sentencing. I do not believe he is an ongoing harm to society and having his daughter raised without a present father would a tertiary injustice in and of itself. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Best,
Ashton Kutcher
I don’t ever recall him lying to me.
That’s fair. I can’t remember the last time I asked of my friends, or they asked of me, “Forcibly raped anyone recently?” I’m quite certain anyone who would forcibly rape another person would answer that honestly. Really this is all Ashton’s fault. Had he just asked that question, we could have got this mess taken care of long ago.
I don’t ever recall him lying to me.
i take that to mean that danny told ashton what happened, and ashton knew and is still supporting danny.
He knew the truth. Even if he never outright asked, he knew in his gut that something was off with that scumbag. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was also someone of questionable morals. You are the people you surround yourself with, i fully believe that.
#Kurtwood Smith’s (who played the dad/Red Foreman) letter#
Dear Judge Olmedo:
My name is Kurtwood Smith. I have been a professional actor for 57 years, the last 43 years working primarily in film and television. It is as an actor that I came to know Danny Masterson.
I should mention that I am aware that Danny has been convicted of two counts of forcible rape and is awaiting sentencing.
I have known Danny since the spring of 1998, when we began filming the television show That 70s Show. We worked on the show for eight years and I consider Danny to be a good friend. Our friendship revolved around work. Primarily because of our age difference we didn’t socialize much outside of work but I saw hi every day on the job whether we had scenes together or not.
I believe Danny to be a wonderful actor. When working together I always found him to be prepared, inventive, and responsive to suggestions from the director, myself, and other actors. Danny was also very enjoyable to be around. He has a quick wit and a good sense of humor. I always looked forward to working on scenes with Danny. I should mention that he was extremely popular with the crew. He was usually the first actor to learn every crew member’s name, what their job was, and how it related to his job. Danny was the leader among his contemporaries in the cast. He was a tad older and much more experienced and he took that position seriously.
During the eight years we did the show. we never had the problems some other shows had with their younger cast members. After the show ended in 2006 I didn’t see much of Danny, except for occasional events, until almost 10 years later, when I began playing a recurring character on The Ranch. Danny was one of the stars of the show. I was happy to be working with him again. It was also great to see his family. If you know Danny, you know his family.
I have known his parents and younger brothers and sister since we started work on That 70s Show. They are a very close knit family; they seem to care very much for each other and work to help one another succeed.
Danny was now married and the father of a beautiful little girl. It was a treat to spend some time with him at work and to be around him and his family. I had met his wife while we were still shooting That 70s Show, although they were not married at the time.
I found that Danny treated all women on the show with respect, not only the women in the cast, but women on the crew as well. It was my observation that he treated the woman he married in a respectful and loving way. Later, when we were working on The Ranch. I was aware that, not only were they a happy couple, but he was a wonderful father to his daughter.
I had the opportunity to watch Danny with his daughter. At the time she was maybe two or three years old. It was so clear how much he loved her and how delighted he was with her. He was so patient and easygoing with her. At one point, when she became fussy, he joked with her and made faces and she calmed down and was laughing. She clearly loved her daddy.
I consider Danny a talented, hardworking, giving actor. I have viewed him being respectful and considerate to those he has worked with. He has been a leader and positive force among his peers. He has seemed loving and caring, not only towards his wife and daughter, but his family at large.
For all the reasons I have mentioned I consider myself fortunate to have had Danny Masterson in my life.
Sincerely yours,
Kurtwood Smith
That’s a weird fucking letter. It doesn’t go far enough to fully endorse his character because of the repeated distance, but it’s too positive to be damning with faint praise. It reads like he wanted to help without going out on a limb
I think that was a smartly written letter from the standpoint that he told the truth of his observations from his perspective, but made no attempt to sway opinion of Danny’s character. Under the circumstances if you really feel compelled to submit a letter, it’s the honest way of doing it.
He said nothing of note, the only reason to do this is to have done it which to me shows support for him.
He can calm his child and not be outwardly hostile to women in his life. I think he’s a nice guy. It’s a weaker stance than Ashton’s but it’s cut from the same cloth.
But that’s the thing: he’s not making an effective argument for the judge, and he’s not taking a moral stand not to side with rapists. It’s too wishy washy to have an impact.
I agree that he felt compelled to write it, stuck exclusively to what he knew well, and tried to be honest, I just don’t get why.
Just because I respected him much more as an actor as Ashton Kutcher- he was in my all-time favorite short film- this one hurts more.
#Mila Kunis’s letter#
To The Honorable Judge Olmedo
I am writing this character letter on behalf of my dear friend, Danny Masterson, with whom I have had the privilege of sharing a significant part of my life. My name is Mila Kunis, and I am an actress, and I believe it is essential to share the remarkable influence Danny has had on my life and the lives of others.
I first met Danny during our time working together on That 70’s Show, and from the very beginning, I could sense his innate goodness and genuine nature. Throughout our time together, Danny has proven to be an amazing friend, confidant, and, above all, an outstanding older brother figure to me. His caring nature and ability to offer guidance have been instrumental in my growth both personally and professionally.
One of the most remarkable aspects of Danny’s character is his unwavering commitment to discouraging the use of drugs. His influence on me in this regard has been invaluable. In an industry where the pressures and temptations of substance use can be overwhelming, Danny played a pivotal role in guiding me away from such destructive paths. His dedication to avoiding all substances has inspired not only me but also countless others in our circle. Danny’s steadfastness in promoting a drug-free lifestyle has been a guiding light in my journey through the entertainment world and has helped me prioritize my well-being and focus on making responsible choices. His genuine concern for those around him and his commitment to leading by example make him an outstanding role model and friend.
Danny’s role as a husband and father to his daughter has been nothing short of extraordinary. Witnessing his interactions with his daughter has been heartwarming and enlightening. He prioritizes his family, education, and happiness above all else, demonstrating his unwavering commitment to being a loving and responsible parent. As a father, he leads by example, instilling in her values that reflect integrity, compassion, and respect for others.
Moreover, Danny has consistently displayed a profound sense of responsibility and care for those around him. He demonstrates grace and empathy in every situation, be it within the entertainment industry or in our personal lives. His steady support and understanding presence make him a reliable source of guidance and comfort for all of us.
Danny Masterson’s warmth, humor, and positive outlook on life have been a driving force in shaping my character and the way I approach life’s challenges. His unwavering commitment to being an exceptional older brother figure to me has had a transformative impact on my life, instilling in me a sense of self-belief and encouraging me to aim for greatness, but all while maintaining a sense of humility.
In conclusion, I wholeheartedly vouch for Danny Masterson’s exceptional character and the tremendous positive influence he has had on me and the people around him. His dedication to leading a drug-free life and the genuine care he extends to others make him an outstanding role model and friend.
Please feel free to reach out if you require any further information or clarification.
Sincerely,
Mila Kunis
Thanks for posting. Mila Kunis has some pretty interesting interviews from the mid 00s about her experience working on the 70s show. In the one I saw she talked about how Danny encouraged then 20 year old Kutchner to French kiss then 14 year old Kunis, which he did. Kutchner was also there and said the same thing, emphasising how it was definitely Danny’s idea to take the heat off of himself. She also has interviews discussing similar and possibly worse things. I wonder why she didn’t include that in her letter…
Edit: found it https://youtu.be/ilHC3NhFW6Q?si=Ha3glLPAqhpYqoAG he says he was 19 but in his letter he says he was 20 when he met Danny.
As a friend, Danny has been nothing but a positive influence on me.
He’s an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being.
Over 25 year relationship I don’t ever recall him lying to me.
Not only is he a good friend to me I’ve witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have.
As a role model, Danny has consistently been an excellent one.
… danny’s an amazing man who walks on water… the serial rapist thing isn’t the real him…
I thought this one was the most interesting as it addresses his crimes head on.
#Debra Jo Rup’s (who played the mom/Kitty Foreman) letter#
Dear Judge Olmedo,
My name is Debra, I am 72 years old, and I live in the mountains In Western Massachusetts. I am writing this letter on behalf of Danny Masterson.
I have known Danny and his family since 1998 when I began working with him on “That 70’s Show”. I am aware that Danny is convicted of 2 counts of forceable rape and, though it is so hard for me to wrap my head around this, I respect the law and the court. I always have.
But I would like to tell you about the young man I know. Danny was the leader of the “kids” on our show. He had the most acting experience and was a little bit older. He was well liked and very respected. One of the first things Danny did with them was to sit them all down (he had a little meeting) and had them al make a pact that no one would do drugs because of the nature of our show. The spotlight would be on them and he wanted everyone to succeed. I remember thinking that it was such a smart thing to do and something I never would have thought of. As a result, you never saw them in the tabloids. Danny made sure of that and I was so appreciative. They all kept their word.
Danny was always respectful and kind. On show days when the camera crew would come in, Danny was the one that shook each camera man’s hand before we started. He knew everyone’s name, where they lived and about their families. I did not. He was loved. Over the years Danny is one of the few that came to support me by seeing my shows in the theater. He brought his family sometimes. And it was a joy. And so appreciated. One night we went to dinner, he had dragged another cast member, his father and some friends to see me, and it was dark and late after theater. I had to get home in New York City so Danny called an Uber, paid for it and escorted me out. There are so many instances of things like this. He was just like that. Respectful and kind.
Wilmer Valderama asked the cast of 70’s Show to go to his high school graduation. Danny and I were the only ones to go. I remember looking at him and dying. It was outside, in the valley, really hot, and he was a “V” alphabetically. We laughed so hard during that. It’s a really nice memory. Danny just always showed up to support.
I knew Danny’s family through work. I had worked with his brother Chris on another show and always saw his family hanging out in his dressing room. Danny’s dressing room was above mine and Danny loved music. Many times I found myself going upstairs to ask him to turn it down and was always greeted with an apology, a grin and an instant fix. It’s these little things that come to mind when I think of Danny. I later did his show ''The Ranch", he called me at home in Massachusetts. I hadn’t done tv in awhile, and he offered it to me. I was so grateful and touched. I loved hearing him play with his daughter in the hallways - it was an awesome giggle.
So thank you for allowing me to-tell you about the Danny Masterson that I love I just read this letter back. It’s so hard for me to express o paper but I understand that he is facing a lengthy sentence and I really wanted to tell you about these moments. He would take the time to do it for me.
Sincerely,
Debra Jo Rupp
These letters are wild. Why? Why get involved? He’s been convicted. Just stay out of it. Now you simply look like you’re defending a convicted rapist. I don’t care if it was my best friend. I’m not going to write a letter for a rapist asking for the judge to go easy on him because he was always nice to me.
Probably pressured by the church of scientology
Are they all Scientologists?
Yes. Supposedly it was Danny Masterson that recruited them. Some of them claim to no longer be involved with the church, but celebrities have been known to lie about that before, likely a church PR move to convince people they’re totally not a cult and that people can leave any time.
Don’t do drugs! Join a cult instead!
Fucking Y I K E Sdeleted by creator
Because the justice system isn’t perfect and it’s possible for innocent people to get convicted.
Is it reasonable to surmise that’s what happened here
This reeks of Scientology from front to back
How do you reasonably surmise if someone is being falsely charged? I don’t know what role Scientology plays in this. What brings them up?
If you’re interested, there is a lot more background on this case
One troubling aspect is that the victims were coerced by the Scientologists to not charge Masterson, and instead, handle this within their cult realm
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I wonder how many others were raped by Danny but didn’t get their day in court?
That’s the real question, highly likely there’s others.
His sex abuse organization was anti-child?
I mean, I guess that’s somewhat positive…?
He and Kunis are learning the hard lesson of “shutting up is free.”
It was stupid of them to say anything. They aren’t in the court room. Their letters aren’t going to affect the decision nor sentencing.
Their letters aren’t going to affect the decision nor sentencing.
Lmao… What exactly do you think the point of pre-sentencing character references in criminal proceedings is? Please be specific.
The fact that Ashton was not aware about the numerous sexual assaults coming from the church of scientology is really damming. Sure, he can be biased about long term friend/coworker, it’s messed up to write charcter letters after the victim testimony when the went in to the details of what Masterson did, but to turn a blind eye to scientology? And you care about victims? About. trafficking? About SA? Fuck off.
Clearly they were never serious about Thorn and was likely only a PR move. At least Debra Jo Rupp and Kurtwood Smith haven’t spent the last couple years telling people to believe victims. Still gross, but Ashton put him self on this pedestal. Kunis to a lesser extent, since she wasnt a founder. But I am just so disappointed at all of these people.
I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, but Ashton publicly crucified and called every person arrested by thorn a trafficker and rapist, before they had their day in court. Yet when it’s his friend, even after three verdict, he’s still defending him. It just makes all his work with thorn look self serving, and makes me wonder if he’s doing it to throw people off the scent, considering he bedded a 14 year old.
makes me wonder if he’s doing it to throw people off the scent, considering he bedded a 14 year old
Wait what??
When he and his wife met, she was 14. He claims that he did absolutely nothing with her until she turned 18, but considering the stuff that’s come out about them in those days recently, I don’t believe him
Ashton’s first wife was 15 years older than him? And when he married Mila she would’ve been 32.
I guess they did meet on set when Mila was 14 but like she didn’t start dating him until she was in her late twenties and it looks like she was dating Macaulay Culkin before then.
I have no dog in this fight really… I don’t have any particular feelings for Ashton; but that doesn’t really hit me as the moves of a predator. By her late twenties Mila surely was old enough to make her own choices, no? And she was clearly with someone else for a long time, no?
Why was he running a sex abuse organization that was specifically anti-child in the first place?
I’m glad I’m not the only one who read it that way.
I mean wouldn’t it be better that they don’t want children in their sex abuse organization?
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
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I’d still write it. I wouldn’t excuse what they did. I’d simply point out that at least one person on the outside knows a different side of that person.
I don’t know the details of Danny’s case. I’m sure that he is an abhorrent human that deserves to be punished. I’m not trying to excuse what he did. I’m simply saying that if I were in Ashton’s shoes. I would have done the same thing.
It’s a conflict of interest for Kutcher. And he deserves all the bad publicity he’s getting for it.
I agree, and I think stepping down is the right thing to do.
That’s fine, but you shouldn’t run an anti sex-abuse organization if that’s what you’d do. I think ‘friends above all else’ is incompatible with seeking to help and protect victims of abuse, many of which will never get justice precisely because their rapist’s friends protected them.
Do you truly know though? There have been countless cases of people performing sudden uncharacteristic and abhorent actions.
I’d never have expected my father to rape his own daughter, but we exist in this timeline. It’s a fact.
Luka Magnotta’s mother still has faith in her ‘version’ of Luke, but does she truly understand him or is she blinded by her emotions?
What are you actually writing then? Who are you really writing about?
I want you to know that I have typed out a response to you like 4 times. Every time it’s super long. This will be my attempt at condensing it.
As someone that was sexually abused as a child. I fully agree that you never truly know someone. That’s why you write a letter that says “I trust in the courts decision that my friend is guilty, but I never knew that side of them, and they will be missed”. Obviously that’s condensed down, but I think you get the point. You can say I love this person without absolving them of responsibility.
The reason I’m like this is because I was a heroin addict for years. All of my family, and most of my friends abandoned me. A select few friends and my partner came together and saved me. They gave me places to stay, and paid for and gave me rides to treatment.
Now, I am opiate free. I have kids, and I’m still alive. Hell, my best childhood friend died of a heroin overdose, and I adopted his kid.
My family abandoned me, but my friends didn’t.
To paraphrase Bud from Kill Bill. “I don’t dodge guilt, and I always pay my comeuppance.”
Anyway I’m falling asleep at the keyboard. So, I hope this all makes sense when you read it. I hope you have a good night.
There are also countless cases of innocent people being convicted of crimes they didn’t commit. I’m not saying that happened here but it does happen.
Just read Ashton’s letter. I thought it’d be way worse judging by some of the comments here, but it wasn’t that bad actually. He didn’t make excuses, just asked for leniency during sentencing. Also brought up a good point about Masterson’s daughter being left without a dad.
Edit: Idk about Mila’s letter though lol. It was awkwardly super focused on the drug-free stuff and no mention of the rapes.
The issue is he never wrote a single letter like that for all the people “his” charity put away. Infact he went so far as to say they deserve no leniency. I’m sure some of them had kids who will now also go without a parent.
Funny how he sung a different tune when he found out one of his best friends has been CONVICTED of raping two people.
You’re right, that’s pretty hypocritical!
Yeah, no. If my best friend, if my brother were convicted by a jury of their peers multiple times for forcibly raping women, I’m out. It doesn’t mean I’d lobby for the punishment to be harsher or anything, but like, they did it. The judge and jury heard all the evidence and testimony and determined he’s guilty. Keep in mind, he committed a pre-meditated crime that probably traumatized the poor victim. For life. Then he did it again.
AFTER knowing that, if you insert yourself into the Justice process and go out of your way to write a letter trying to use personal anecdotes/celebrity/money/fame/goodwill to enable them to get a lighter sentence… you’re a piece of shit. The innocent victims don’t have celebrities on their side putting their thumbs on the scale…
I don’t have many friends.
Yeah, I can see why.
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
What about if your friend raped children? Would you still be ok with that? Or are you only OK with it if they rape adults? Just trying to work out exactly where people like you draw the line.
PS: You didn’t need to include the part about not having many friends, it’s heavily implied by the rest of your comment.
I’ve already said this several times. It’s not about being “ok” with any of it. What it is about, is just because someone does horrible doesn’t just erase years positive experiences. It’s ok to love someone from a distance.
Part 2 of your question is a straw man fallacy, and I’m not going to even going to entertain that question.
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
I’ve read and laughed at this three times already.
It sounds like you and your “friends” are terrible people. Stop getting arrested and apologising for rapists you sick fuck.
Ahhh I see we have now moved on to the ad hominem fallacy.
Very good very good
Turns out that being against rape in 99.9% of cases isn’t good enough.
Correct.
I wonder how Masterson feels now when he looks at his young daughter and knows that there are people like him in the world.
What he did to those girls, someone could do to his. I hope he spends all his time in jail thinking about that.
I also hope that nothing bad ever happens to her, just for clarity.
