• Nine@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Following that logic if you’re sovereign then it’s not really a riot or insurrection. It’s another nation engaging in war with another nation. The election wasn’t any of their business to begin with since they’re sovereign.

    That “sovereign citizen” just lost a war against arguably the most powerful nation on the globe.

    Fucking moron. I hope he’s able to grow and learn from this experience in a positive way. 🤷‍♂️

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’ve never heard of a SovCit that isn’t a fucking moron unless they’re a grifter. Anyone with a lick of sense would be able to figure out their beliefs are all silly.

      • JustZ@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The whole thing started as a mail order scam targeting poor black communities, especially obviously people charged with crimes, who are desperate enough to believe this stuff will work. They think they are buying legal magic words that will make courts do whatever they want.

        There’s a seminal case from Canada that lays out their history and categorizes their arguments, it’s worth the read just for the great research and writing, but it provides a playbook for judges and lawyers to properly dispose of these cases. They used to be a nightmare when they first came around because they would grind things to a halt. Now courts know how to handle it and they are some of the easier cases to dispose.

        Here’s the case: only 200 pages, ha! https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

        Calls them OCPA litigants: Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      SovCits are what happens when people are willing to believe anything that makes their opinion right, and ignore anything that proves them wrong.

      They use the law as a shield, but the second they want to break the law, they say it doesn’t matter.

      If someone showed up at their house and claimed it was now their house due to annexation, they’d be on the phone to the cops faster than you could imagine.

      They want everyone else to follow the rules, and for them to do anything they want.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        If someone showed up at their house and claimed it was now their house due to annexation, they’d be on the phone to the cops faster than you could imagine.

        They actually have tried that (more than once) and it was harder to evict them than you would think.

        Police had tried multiple times to get the squatters to leave the home, including using a helicopter and armored vehicles, The Sun reported. They were able to get a search warrant after pulling over Michael Lawrence Warren, one of the squatters, for a traffic stop and discovering his identity and criminal history, which included sex offenses.

        https://www.insider.com/sovereign-citizens-moved-into-15-million-mansion-in-maryland-2021-7

        • JustZ@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          That’s different. That’s squatters rights. All you have to do to claim squatters rights is occupy the home to the exclusion of the true owner under a claim of right. Bam, it’s instantly a matter of landlord tenant law and you’re entitled to summary process (eviction proceedings). Sometimes they can jam that up but it eventually goes through. Then the sheriff or whoever has to serve the eviction. They often combine their squatting with false entries into the land records. That’s when it gets hard.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            In the United States, squatting is illegal and squatters can be evicted for trespassing.[36] Real estate managers recommend that vacant properties be protected by erecting “no trespassing” signs, regular checks, tenant screening, and quickly finding new tenants.[45] In Miami, municipal ordinance requires that property owner exercise all legal means to remove squatters and police are empowered to take actions to remove squatters from private property and then bill the owner or lessee.[46]

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_in_the_United_States#Legal

            There is no such thing as squatter’s rights in the United States.

            • silverbax@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Yeah, I don’t know why people keep posting that on Reddit and Lemmy. Having been a former landlord, eviction is not difficult, it’s just that some inexperienced landlords are not aware of the laws. You own the property, If someone moves in without an agreement from you, you evict them, or more accurately, you have them charged with breaking and entering, plus trespassing.

              I once rented to a couple where the boyfriend became verbally abusive and would throw things at his girlfriend during arguments. The thing is, he wasn’t on the rental agreement, she was. He refused to leave, I laughed and had his ass out within 3 hours.

        • Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 months ago

          Sounds like the reason it was hard is because of our own existing laws and not anything they’re claiming with their sovereign citizenship stuff.

    • don@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      I hope he’s able to grow and learn from this experience…

      That’s some heroic optimism right there

    • AbidanYre@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Yeah, but according to the article he apologized to one of the officers he attacked, so they should just let him go.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    SovCits in courts and at traffic stops are an unending source of entertainment. “The flag has a fringe on it, therefore this court is being run on maritime law and something something anyway this is all illegitimate and you must find me not guilty!”

    I also like it when they make their own license plates and try to argue that’s their right.

    • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      My favorite was the group of sovereign citizens living in a compound, they keep harassing people and authorities to stay of their sovereign property. Then they had a fire and they’re begging the fire department to come save them, without a hint of irony.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I love it when die-hard libertarians tell me that people should pay a fee to have fire departments come to their houses and put out a fire.

        • totallynotaspy@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          Lol they need to read a history book, that will just end up with arsonists working for the fire departments like the early days of firefighting in most large American cities

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Libertarians don’t care about history. They don’t care about practicality. All they care about is not paying taxes for any reason.

            You can even ask them to name a single country in the history of money that didn’t have taxation. They can’t, because there isn’t one. But they don’t want a moneyless society either.

            • enki@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              Not just taxes, they want all the benefits of society without contributing to it at all. They want to be able to do whatever they want without consequence. They’re literal freeloaders pretending to be “free people.”

          • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Or like ancient Rome where Cressus would show up to your burning house/business with his fire brigade, and offer to put it out only after you agreed to sell it to him. Think quick, cause the clock is ticking and the price is dropping every second

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        7 months ago

        They’re basically adult brats: they believe they can do whatever they want cause they’re big babies now, but if something goes wrong the parents/state gotta run to help them. And obviously no time-out because they said “I’m sorry”.

    • MüThyme@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      If there was actually some technicality that meant they were trying them in the wrong type of court or whatever, wouldn’t they just end that trial and go and do it properly?

      I swear I’ve heard this sort of nonsense strategy before…

      • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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        7 months ago

        I think some of them believe that the government has been replaced by some sort of fake organization that pretends to be a government, like a corporation or something, and as such that the proper court doesn’t exist and so they can’t legally be tried.

        • Kid_Thunder@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          It is more that they believe they didn’t choose to be governed by their government and therefore they are a citizen within their own separate nation. In their eyes, the court exists but has no jurisdiction over them.

  • rustyfish@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I love it when sovcits are hit by reality. They don’t have to accept it. They also don’t have to change their beliefs. At least they get punished and locked away for our safety.

  • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    “I have repented all my sins,” Johnatakis said during the trial, saying he requested that Lamberth “discharge” the matter — a common phrase from sovereign citizens — since, he said, there was no “controversy” before the court.

    During the trial, Johnatakis questioned an FBI agent, Michael Kiley, on whether he accepted Johnatakis’ apology for his actions. Kiley responded that it wasn’t his place to accept Johnatakis’ apology.

    I DECLARE REPENTANCE!

    • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      TRIAL BY COMBAT! Quick someone get him 2 big Mac’s, a large fry and a diet coke…he needs the energy for the battle.

  • LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    If they are sovereign citizens and not citizens of the USofA, shouldn’t they be tried as illegal aliens and sent to migrant camps in desert or to Gitmo?

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    you can be a sovereign citizen any time you want by renouncing your citizenship. it’s a real thing you can do and it has a process. and then you’re completely fucked.

    • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      You generally can’t be made stateless, from my understanding, so unless you have dual citizenship, I doubt you could.

      • nutsack@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        not according to Wikipedia

        the U.S. does not prohibit its citizens from making themselves stateless, but the State Department strongly recommends against it,

      • IamtheMorgz@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Aside from the fact that this isn’t true for people giving up their citizenship (in the US at least), it’s especially not true around the world. Lots of people are born stateless or made stateless during conflict or upheaval.

  • Motavader@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    So he’s saying he’d like to visit Guantanamo? I mean, that is where we send foreign fighters…