The legal grounds: The oil was shipped by a US company in violation of US law. American companies can’t do business with an organisation that the US government has designated as a terrorist organisation. Thus American authorities siezed the ship and its cargo.
The legal grounds: it is ok when we do it. This is just old fashioned piracy, but of course you’ll try to justify it.
The ship was not intercepted by the Navy. They served a court order on the company and the company turned the ship back and its cargo was seized
Why is this person getting upvotes for clearly lying. Empire Navigation is based in Greece. Here’s more info: Source.
But the company pleaded guilty…
Yes. And were fined. But that’s perfunctory so that they can make more money smuggling oil. The sanctions are solely enforced by the U.S., without consent of the UN.
Yes.
Your own link argues against you:
"But the Suez Rajan case was unique at the time of the transfer because it was owned by the Los Angeles-based private equity firm Oaktree Capital Management. "
At the time the ship was being used for moving US sanctioned oil, it was own by a US company. That supports @NateNate60@lemmy.ml 's statements.
That is correct and why they could prosecute this case. But they have been seizing oil since 2019. And even if all those tankers were partially owned by US companies, it still doesn’t change the fact that this amounts to piracy. Defending international injustice with legalese doesn’t absolve what this is. When China seizes our tankers because the parts were made in China, will you defend them?
And even if all those tankers were partially owned by US companies,
If the tankers or company is operating in the US, then they are bound by US laws no matter where they are in the world. A company can’t benefit from the protection of the US government and laws at home only to go abroad to commit US crimes.
Many countries can use that justification. Why are you defending an act that you’d condemn if it was done to America?
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china? is that you?
I’m an American that actually wants my country to act like the things it says it stands for.
you’re a liar
You know I’m not.
see, you just can’t stop… you don’t even remember where you left the truth…
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Attack the person, if you can’t defend the argument. Be better.
I could not give less of a fuck what a people like you think or believe. Your “arguments” are born out of propaganda. Hell, half of your fucking posts I’ve seem were “this is written by a website based in a country I don’t like”, too bad truth is not written by propaganda websites you love to browse.
Go back to hexbear, grad, or whatever shithole you crawled out of, degenerate tankie scum
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Impossible to take an insult from people like you, scatter insect
What a dolt.
The contraband cargo is now the subject of a civil forfeiture action in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The United States’ forfeiture complaint alleges that the oil aboard the vessel is subject to forfeiture based on U.S. terrorism and money laundering statutes.
The complaint alleges a scheme involving multiple entities affiliated with Iran’s IRGC and the IRGC-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to covertly sell and transport Iranian oil to a customer abroad. Participants in the scheme attempted to disguise the origin of the oil using ship-to-ship transfers, false automatic identification system reporting, falsified documents and other means. The complaint further alleges that the charterer of the vessel used the U.S. financial system to facilitate the transportation of Iranian oil
The worlds largest terrorist state gets to dictate who is terrorist?
When you’re running your company on US soil, yeah.
Yep. Anyone can do that, actually. I can declare you a terrorist. It’s totally my right to do so, but the question is–so what? What am I going to do about it?
The US government has declared the Iranian organisation a terrorist organisation. What have they done about it?
The amount of outrage on this thread is just ignorant people learning how international geopolitics and the concept of absolute state sovereignty work for the first time. Yes, it is the case that big countries get to stick their fingers into the business of little countries. Yes, it is unfair. But that’s how it is and that’s how it’s always gonna be for the foreseeable future. That’s how it always has been for all of human history. From Ur to Rome to Vienna to London to Washington. From Chang’an to Beijing to Nanjing to Tokyo and now back to Beijing. In the next century maybe it will be some other country kicking around everyone else instead of the US. But I can practically guarantee that there will be kicking and there will be people continuing to complain about how unfair it is, because it is and always has been.
I’d like to say we should do better as a species, but in reality, what we have now is really fucking amazing compared to when Genghis Khan would come romping around town destroying your villages and murdering your people, or the Romans coming and demanding fifty talents of silver by sunset or else, or the Belgians planting rubber trees in your backyard.
we should do better as a species, but in reality, what we have now is really fucking amazing
I always say this when people say we should burn it all down. Sometimes they say it flippantly but some people actually think it’s a good idea to hit the reset button. Like it’s a good idea to go back to subsistence agriculture and hunter gatherer lifestyle. No, thanks, overall, things are actually going really well all things considered.
Realpolitik go brrr
State actors, by definition are not terrorists.
America has caused the deaths of around 4.5 million people in the middle east since 9/11
The US is a terrorist state
If China sanctioned the US as a terrorist state and discovered a Chinese company was illegally selling oil to the US, would you be upset with the Chinese government bringing that company to court? And would you say it’s wrong that as part of the court proceedings, the company in violation agrees to ship the oil to a Chinese port, for the Chinese government to seize?
If that sounds acceptable to you, you should really consider why you find it unacceptable and propaganda when the roles are switched.
Im not disputing that, I was asking for the rational behind the worlds largest terrorist state (the US) trying to dictate who is and who isnt a terrorist.,
Some states do use their own definitions of terrorism to explain why it’s bad when other people do it but OK when they do it, but that’s definitely not a uniform definition.
the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective.
- Britannica
The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals.
- American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims. The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants.
- Wiki
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve some goal
- Collins English Dictionary
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes… government or resistance to government by means of terror.
- Webster’s
I am proud that America is finally doing something about this illegal oil trade. We have always turned a blind eye, and now we are actually forcing our hand to keep Iran from becoming a potential world-ending regime with no human rights for Iranians.
potential world-ending regime
Sorry, what?
They wanna build nukes, I’m saying they’d also use them
Even if they make nukes they would, at best, develop few dozen. You would need a lot more to produce global efects.
Yes America should stand against any country that would use nukes
/s?
Lol yeah the US is the only country that has used nukes
Exacly!
So…will they seize the companies assets and arrest the CEO for violating the sanctions?
Because that’s how you stop this shit.
You want the United States to arrest someone in Greece for transporting oil from Iran to China? I don’t see how it’s any of our fucking business.
The company is based in Los Angeles you knob
No. A LA based private equity company technically owned the boat at the time of transfer (they do not own it anymore, it’s been sold to the Greek company). That US based company is seemingly off Scott free in this situation and the Greek company is the one being fined and sanctioned.
AT THE TIME OF THE TRANSFER
Watch as he desperately reaches for straws!!
You literally said this yourself and then ignore that you did lmfao.
US jurisdiction, just cause they tried musical chairs or whatever is just nonsense of them trying to pull some shit. Case closed sis.
So instead of putting the US capital investors in prison and seizing the assets of the equity firm, they seize the oil and fuck the greek company.
That is judiciary colonialism
judiciary colonialism
Colonialism is defined here as “things I don’t like”
Good point
Seeing how they pled guilty and paid a 2.5 Million dollar fine and 3 years probation, I guess it was our fucking business.
They plead guilty to violating the IEEPA, which is a law we passed that says if we declare an emergency we can regulate whatever international commerce we feel like. The US being being wealthy enough that companies choose to comply so they can still have our business doesn’t make it right.
Seizing over a hundred million of oil is a pretty big ouch to any business
For business sure. But what about consequences for the people who made the decisions?
They get fired for losing the company 100 million? They get a bonus for implementing a better way of doing the same thing the next 50 times? Dunno, I’m not an oil smuggling expert.
Not for the shipping company. It’s not their oil. The Iranians can ask the shipping company for compensation, which they could easily refuse and there isn’t much recourse that the Iranians would have. The Chinese could demand compensation but if the company again refuses or claims insolvency or whatever, it’s easier for the Chinese to just stiff the Iranians with payment instead.
The company is Greek.
The company is Greek.
The ship was owned by a US company:
"But the Suez Rajan case was unique at the time of the transfer because it was owned by the Los Angeles-based private equity firm Oaktree Capital Management. "
Great. You got me on a technicality. So it’s okay for any country to steal oil from another if that tanker, or it’s propeller, was once owned by the thieving country?
was once owned by the thieving country?
Once owned? You mean during the time the crime was committed?
Why is piracy okay?
Not piracy. Being held accountable to the laws in which there is proper jurisdiction.
You’re making a strange nonsensical argument. Lets plug your argument into a similar theoretical situation:
Lets say a US company owns a truck and is transporting cocaine in the United States from a South American drug cartel to their drug distribution networks in Vancouver, British Columbia. The police pull over the truck and find the drugs. Being illegal they seize the truck and the drugs. You’re arguing the South American drug cartel should be given their cocaine back because the cartel and the drug distribution network in Vancouver is outside of the United States. That makes your logic laughably naive, willfully ignorant, or maliciously in bad faith.
What gives the US proper jurisdiction? Iran did not agree to be sanctioned. Nor do they have to adhere to a law made in the United States, unless they agreed to it internationally. My argument is sound. Other countries don’t have to obey US law, unless they agreed to that law. This isn’t difficult.
you got me on a technicality
“I can declassify anything I want just by thinking about it”
Oaktree Capital Management doesn’t sound very Greek to me. Maybe it’s because the company is based in Los Angeles…
Your justifying piracy. It’s okay when we do it. But not when they do. How magnanimous.
This is the opposite of what magnanimous means.
mag·nan·i·mous
/maɡˈnanəməs/
adjective
generous or forgiving, especially toward a rival or less powerful person.
I know. /s
If it does business in the US, its a US company.
??? There are thousands of companies that do business in the US that aren’t american.
Source?
A dream that won’t come true, these people only see this as part of the risk of doing business and will try again in the same way, hoping to not get caught, or will find a legal loophole.
There is a lot of misreporting and misunderstanding about this. OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Control) exists within Treasury and is responsible for enforcing sanctions usually created by executive order (“EO”), or very rarely, Congress. EOs and OFAC interpretation are very specific: some sanctions, such as the ones on the export of Iranian crude/products, are explicitly extraterritorial. Meaning, the US reserves the right to come after you no matter what country you are a citizen of or where you company is domiciled. It’s very rare for them to try this one anyone who doesn’t have US nexus since there is not much practically speaking they can do, but they could in theory. OFAC has, no pun intended, FAQs for all of this easily found at their site.
Now, this case was extra stupid. Oaktree is the single biggest PE investor in shipping, going in heavy starting a bit before the financial crash and going in really big with Eagle Bulk c. 2012 or so. Oaktree is, as stated, a US company, but that wasn’t the main reason: they did this transaction in USD. Which was stupid, but having met the bastards at Empire a few times, I can say they are not the brightest bunch (as as far as I understand they are doing most of this kind of work in EUR with some shady banks nowadays anyway). Anyway any transaction in USD goes through the SWIFT system (which is why kicking Russia out of it was such a massive deal). This means there was simply no way this was not going to get eventually scanned since banks have repurposed their AML programs into sanctions programs or subscribe to sanctions-specific services like PoleStar’s PupleTrac (what my company uses) or Windward or Lloyd’s, etc. Now the dirty secret is that the banks don’t really understand movement data that well, but Empires has done this (and Venezuela) so often for so long, someone at Treasury probably said, “OK, since we got Oaktree all up in this, let’s make an example of of these guys to scare others away from these trades.”
[spoiler alert: it did not scare others away from these trades and most folks estimate there are about 1,000 large tankers that form a so called “Dark Fleet” trading in Iran, Venezuela, and now Russia since both crude and product have broken the price cap at all Russian export locations. You cam make about 40% more shipping such cargos than legal ones.]
Anyway, I digress, The the point is that OFAC doesn’t care if you have US nexus; it just makes you easier to catch if you do. Source: I am the head of credit and compliance for a large oil company that works closely with the shipping industry.
Now I’m curious to know how a head of compliance for a oil company found their way to kbin.social.
Lemmy isn’t just programmers and cryptobros fyi. Lots of people have interesting jobs and hardly anyone works 100% of the time. Gotta shitpost somewhere.
Nothing precludes the head of compliance from being a cryptobro or a programmer.
US Navy submariner checking in!
Red Oktober shtanding by!
Eh, for one we are hyper specialized oil company so not quite as evil as your run of the mill ones. We sell fuel to ships, so unless everyone suddenly agrees they don’t need the 90% of the world’s commodities and manufactured goods anymore, you gotta use ships. And in a moderate defense, ships by far the least polluting way to transport stuff by ton/mile.
Me personally I’m a big old lefty, even here within the EU’s context (where the American Democrats would be a center-right party).I just fell into this role and happened to be good at it. My function is far too niche for any green energy projects. At the core of what we do and the bit I supervise, we are basically providing short term liquidity to shipping companies, since you sell fuel on unsecured credit. Believe me I’ve looked (and keep looking) at green and adjacent spaces.
Oh that makes sense, thank you for the explanation!
OFAC stole a wire transfer to my landlord. I assume it’s because he has a Middle Eastern-sounding name.
They provided me a case number and I mailed in the forms I found online to dispute the seizure. They sent me a letter saying that they had no record of that case. I realized the futility of fighting the government over a couple of grand and switched to depositing money orders into his account and let it go. Created a lot of extra effort (not that it was difficult, just tedious) on my end.
OFAC is a criminal organization.
No shit it’s a criminal organization.
I’m sorry man but when it comes to international topics I can’t trust some faceless user on the internet for a run down of what happened.
Do you have any sources or directions you can point me in for more information about the inconsistencies in reporting?
(Just had a thought, we should have meta news agencies that analyze news agencies (including each other meta news agency))
Yeah my guy/gal non-binarny pal, I wouldn’t take some Random Internet Person’s word either (although I did mention where you could find it…)
End of my workday and I’m tired and maybe could have found some better examples, but here’s the bit about going after foreign financial services: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-31/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-561/subpart-B
I’m having trouble finding a clear example of the extraterritoriality of US sanctions against individuals, but it’s defined in nearly every EO.
I am the head of credit and compliance for a large oil company that works closely with the shipping industry.
So, complicit in the destruction of the planet. Good job, Sparky!
Didn’t you say something about being better and not attacking people like two hours ago in this exact thread.
That is not an attack. It’s a statement of fact.
Hey fuck you, buddy! I forgot to log into my alt!
!/s!<
If you heat your home you are exactly as complicit as he is
This is true. But I know it. I just want to make sure he does too.
You forgot the *smugface*
I didn’t need it.
It’s far more complicated than that. You need X amount of energy density to do Y amount of work, and there is certain specialized work that is only now beginning to look for replacements, although well-to-wake is tough to do.
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Tankie loves their Putin daddy. Or I guess it’s probably Xi these days. Iran and China can suck my left nut
What? In the article it does state, that the company had to pay for the significant expenses of bringing the ship to the US. So it was likely seized somewhere, where the US has no jurisdication. This is just piracy and it is in line with US crimes like murdering an Iranian diplomat, they invited to negotiations.
Critizising these blatant crime sby the US, that are similiar to what China is trying to pull in the Sea around East Asia has nothing to do, with being pro Putin or pro China.
But it is no wonder, that China and Russia can muster support around the world, despite the shit they pull, if the US is still acting high and mighty, while being drenched in blood.
It is an American company. That is American jurisdiction. The fuck you talking about tankie?
The cargo wasn’t american and the company was owned by an american equity company. By that logic half of the US is under chinese jurisdication, because it is owned by chinese companies.
Also nice, that instead of interacting with half of what i said your immediate go to is to insult me as tankie. China is pulling a lot of shit, but if that is the best the US can measure itself by, then the US is just incredibly pathetic.
The contraband cargo is now the subject of a civil forfeiture action in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The United States’ forfeiture complaint alleges that the oil aboard the vessel is subject to forfeiture based on U.S. terrorism and money laundering statutes.
The complaint alleges a scheme involving multiple entities affiliated with Iran’s IRGC and the IRGC-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to covertly sell and transport Iranian oil to a customer abroad. Participants in the scheme attempted to disguise the origin of the oil using ship-to-ship transfers, false automatic identification system reporting, falsified documents and other means. The complaint further alleges that the charterer of the vessel used the U.S. financial system to facilitate the transportation of Iranian oil
I called you a tankie cause your blatantly being a goof about it.
America is not the arbiter of international law. Just because you can bomb people back to the Stone Age, doesn’t make you right. No one agreed to these laws and sanctions.
Learn to read
It’s an American ship. It’s bound by American laws.
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I’d point out that this ship was owned by American capitalists trying to boost the value of their stock portfolio, but I think that might cause your head to explode.
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Well then your point no longer makes any sense if that’s who you were referring to.
“In addition, pursuant to a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) and a seizure warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Empire Navigation, the operating company of the vessel carrying the contraband cargo, agreed to cooperate and transport the Iranian oil to the United States – an operation which has now concluded.”
Damn this is some new age piracy with the company itself transporting the contraband.
This is why venture capitalists win. You choose hills to die on that have no bearing whatsoever and fabricate the existence of violence on the hills.
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That’s a good thing? The company doesn’t get prosecuted in return for bringing the oil back.
The company’s vessel, Suez Rajan Limited, transported the contraband to the US and “incurred the significant expenses associated with the vessel’s voyage to the United States,” according to the DOJ.
Here.
Literally just try reading the fucking article instead of acting high and mighty without any effort because you want to be right.
Where does it state blood was spilled? If the US seized the ship out in the open ocean (piracy), how would the company have incurred any expenses on the journey to the US? They wouldn’t be the ones piloting the ship.
What? What? You aren’t even making sens and not talking as if you read the article or understand what is being talked about here.
They told a ship of an American finance holding company to get it’s butt to their borders or suffer consequences and made the company pay for fees, and it’s own gas usage.
I quoted the part of the article where it says they piloted the ship back to the US? Also you could still have the company pay all costs associated. So many people in here who don’t read.
Yes it’s clear people don’t read. For example, when someone is asked to provide evidence to the claim that “blood was spilled” or “piracy occurred,” people respond with a quote about the company “incurring expenses” as if that is in any way relevant or satisfies the question.
Are you responding to the wrong comment?
Cope and seethe.
I hope we seize so much oil that China, Russia and Iran have economic contractions.
What blood was spilled? The ship turned itself in following a court order. No USN involvement.
Open minded person you have my full support. (y)
Piracy is only bad when Asian people do it.
Also, piracy didn’t occur here. It was a ship owned by a US company who was served a court order, admitted guilt, and sailed to the US…
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This is the dumbest false rhetoric I’ve ever read. Congrats I guess.
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As a capitalist aggressor, I hope Ukraine drone strikes Putin right in the dick.
Were you not there January 6th when tankies stormed the capital?
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Careful, if you admit that there are a small number of actual Nazis in the US, that gives Russia the right to invade.
you’re really giving credit to the CIA on this lemmy thread? alright, I guess
Fuck you
Pay me
Brand new whip 40’s [redacted] like slavery
TOLD ME I WAS AWFUL AND THAT SHIT DID NOT PHASE ME
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Played this for my cousin, now he can’t even think straight, black and white music now [redacted] that’s a mix tape
He’s a serious contender for one of the greats, it’s a shame he’s retired.
Make The Beat That Murdered It
Casey Anthony
It would be better for the US if we didn’t sanction Iran, actually. But it might be better for China that we are. We are sanctioning against human rights violations, not just cuz muh money.
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This is like arguing you shouldn’t get prison time after committing a murder because you have kids and they’ll struggle without you around. These sanctions can be more targeted like in cases of Russian oligarchs having their properties seized. In this specific case, a US company was transporting oil in violation of US law and were served a court order. Iran is free to send their own tankers to China and Russia. I doubt the US would blow one of them up.
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Well I have to agree they target the people and have unintended consequences. BUT I disagree that they don’t hurt the rich and powerful.
-
Just like here, the rich absorb 90% of the new wealth created. If wealth isn’t being created, they lack power in capital to exert.
-
We have recently sanctioned Iranian individuals. This means they have trouble leaving their country, and any trade with them is illegal, which again reduces their bargaining power - so that actors like China can swoop in and take advantage of Iran.
The iranian citizens are standing up and revolting. Iran has seen a lot of direct action over this 40 year history during sanctions. The idea that we are keeping evil people in power is new to me and feels really abstract. In my mind the only way we are making the situation worse is by increasing poverty in Iran. But are sanctions also stopping political upheaval, and how?
-
They could at least give Iran back their oil. This is like when cops steal your jewelry and claim civil forfeiture.
The contraband cargo is now the subject of a civil forfeiture action in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The United States’ forfeiture complaint alleges that the oil aboard the vessel is subject to forfeiture based on U.S. terrorism and money laundering statutes.
The complaint alleges a scheme involving multiple entities affiliated with Iran’s IRGC and the IRGC-Qods Force (IRGC-QF) to covertly sell and transport Iranian oil to a customer abroad. Participants in the scheme attempted to disguise the origin of the oil using ship-to-ship transfers, false automatic identification system reporting, falsified documents and other means. The complaint further alleges that the charterer of the vessel used the U.S. financial system to facilitate the transportation of Iranian oil
Iran is not bound by US law. You do understand that? Right? Right?
Lool read what I just post. Iran is irrelevant
This entire story is about Iran. They are a sovereign country. It doesn’t matter what laws the US makes up and uses to justify piracy.
US company, China, US money and multiple moves made to avoid US government from knowing.
Sure kid
Again daughter, Iran is not bound by US law. Recursive logic is still recursive.
Okay well you’re just wrong I can’t help you
The EU also has sanctions on Iran so a Greek company broke the sactions imposed by its country. They used the US banking system to transfer the money as well and the USA upheld the sanctions of another country.
I don’t know why nobody else pointed that out.
It’s the same bullshit with the US “pay us taxes no matter where you are” bullshit.
It’s clear international overreach just like everything else.
All countries do that. Then all countries also want you to “pay us taxes where you live”. Double taxation is a problem for many people, even between countries with tax agreements like in the EU.
The US is the only developed country in the world where your tax duty is based on citizenship rather than where you live or work
If you tried to transport a kilo of Mexican cocaine through another country and were caught, do you really think Mexico would get its cocaine back?
So America owns the oceans blue?
No, but they control what happens aboard ships that fly American flags.
Do you think the ocean is some sort of lawless no man’s land, where captains do as they please with crew and passengers?
Well, it isn’t. The ship has a flag, and while aboard you follow the laws of that flag.
Yep. But you’re not mentioning why this happened. The Sanctions. Which are…tada- arbitrary and illegal.
They are not illegal. All sovereign countries can refuse to trade with any other country or restrict the use of their own currency.
Which is all that these sanctions amount to.
I should have said unethical or extrajudicial. The United States is preventing a sovereign country from trading. Just because it is “legal” by American law doesn’t make it ethical. You can argue the legality. You may even agree with the ethics. But it is outside international law and condemned by the UN. I never argued the legality of the U.S. law. I am arguing that the sanctions are inhumane and unnecessary. So the ship should have never been seized.
Trade embargoes do not violate international law. Otherwise, we would condemn Iran for its embargo against Israel. But Iran is free to pursue whatever trade policy it wants.
And don’t confuse a statement by a UN employee for a statement by the UN.
Iran sanctions are meant to slow their nuclear program and thus de-escalate the region. It’s possible they are now counterproductive. But it’s also possible that without them, a paranoid right wing Israeli government would have openly attacked Iran by now. So it may well be the lesser evil.
US navy commiting piracy on the open seas because they’re the only substantial naval force that exists globally
Seriously though, they do this to Argentina too lmao.
So much for free trade
You can tell from the comments in this post that Americans are immune to propaganda.
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I somehow don’t think the US is more propagandized than, say, North Korea. I want a source on this or I’m just going to assume you’re pulling it out of your ass.
Yeah I’m pretty sure if I were being propagandized I would have heard about it on the news. In North Korea they believe that Kim Jong Un doesn’t poop. And I know that’s true because I saw it on the news.
Just from the sheer fact that Americans probably consume more media than North Koreans, you would expect Americans to be more propagandized than North Koreans.
I’m gonna go with that it’s typically pulled out of their ass for some sweet dunking points
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There are two types of propaganda, the north Korean one which boils down to the party and leader who can do nothing wrong, and as a result there is only one truth, because the government controls it.
The western method is to flood the person with a constant barrage of information, stimulus, and dopamine, it doesn’t matters the subject “the conservatives are sucking off and swallowing the loads of corporations again” “some trannny will ask you to call him she, and eat your children” in this case the truth doesn’t matter either, as truth has become another commodity to be bought as capital demands, you can buy your own truth, you can even get your own prophet, for the low price of 5 each month.
The western method is to flood the person with a constant barrage of information, stimulus, and dopamine
As depicted in Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
I find it funny that the east (Russia, China, NK, Myanmar etc) follows the 1984 manual, the west yeah,
As depicted in Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
rouge nations
Can’t tell if typo or extremely clever pun
… Orange man didn’t get elected on his wit and charm.
Im referring to democrats that see propaganda everywhere except their own back yard
America is the most propagandized country? Really?
most is an overstatement. Yeah I think we are, it seems to take a lot of work to get past my American biases when reading world news. I could fall into “America Bad” leftist takes, and that would be just as lazy.
Probably. Since it’s one with the least censorship, everyone needs to push more propaganda than the opposition…
You believe the US is one with least censorship? Did they tell you that?
Guess it depends on what we call “censorship”. Is it state enacted censorship of personal opinions? Is it censorship of porn? Is it how many reporters get killed each year?
At least the US has the 1st amendment; a lot of countries don’t, or circumvent free speech laws with censorship in one way or another (free speech for me, not for thee).
“In addition, pursuant to a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) and a seizure warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Empire Navigation, the operating company of the vessel carrying the contraband cargo, agreed to cooperate and transport the Iranian oil to the United States – an operation which has now concluded.”
Link came from this CNN article. Would you say that ignoring the facts of a situation and using it to push an agenda would be, perhaps, propaganda?
transport the Iranian oil to the United States
So everyone is cool with the US taking stuff that isnt theirs?
You didn’t answer my other question – if China seized oil from an international shipping company, because China had sanctions against selling oil to the US after designated them a sponsor of terror, and a Chinese vessel was going to be used, would you be just as upset?
Because I’m fine with the US seizing goods from a US ship if they’re violating US trade sanctions – just like I’m fine with China seizing goods from a Chinese ship if they’re violating Chinese trade sanctions. If the company didn’t want to have their cargo seized, they shouldn’t have used a US/Chinese ship to act against US/Chinese sanctions.
I’m not good with it in either situation, sanctions are ecocide.
Well you’re consistent, which I appreciate and respect.
Never heard of a little place called North Korea? Read a book.
Have read a book, its called projection.
That’s a weird title. Is it about film displays?
This is egregious big government overreach impeding business and free trade
I think the proper word here is “liberated”
Mission accomplished
ITT: “It’s ok when we do it.”
Of course it’s okay we sanction human rights abusers. Europe does it, too. Am I supposed to disagree with another country’s sanctions or something?
Human rights abusers when they aren’t our allies. US has been pretty chill with Saudi Arabia and they literally dismembered someone on foreign soil because they vocally opposed the tyrannical regime.
Saying there should be harsher treatment of SA doesn’t make the sanctions against China any less justified.
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You know what’s even funnier? Replace “China” with “Iran” in my comment and it still applies.
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Saudi Arabia is allies only with our Republican governments. They have been and are going to keep effectively sanctioning us by raising the price of oil before our next election.
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This but unironically.
The court filings also show allegations that “profits from oil sales support the IRGC’s full range of malign activities, including the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, support for terrorism and both domestic and international human rights abuses.”
Remember Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction?
Yes. Also that has no relevance here.
Are you suggesting the Iranian government is not a hell state that deserves sanctions?
Plenty of hell states deserve sanctions, including the US. Being a hell state isn’t a criterion for sanctions. You’re just parroting US propaganda which pretends human rights are why it applies sanctions when in reality that is the last thing on their mind.
So you agree they deserve sanctions and this is a good thing.
Why are you arguing?
I said “Being a hell state isn’t a criterion for sanctions.” Sanctions don’t work the way you think they do. They don’t actually punish the people who make hell states the hell states that they are. If they did, then the hell state that would be among those that deserve it the most would be the USA. Do you agree with this?
No, but whether or not I agree the US should be sanctioned is not relevant here.
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I’m unaware of a pending invasion of Iran, and I think it’s about a year late for the kind of intervention I’d have liked to see.
The Iranian government has no right to exist, and should absolutely be overthrown, though.
“In addition, pursuant to a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) and a seizure warrant issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, Empire Navigation, the operating company of the vessel carrying the contraband cargo, agreed to cooperate and transport the Iranian oil to the United States – an operation which has now concluded.”
- DOJ Press Release
Is playing fast and loose with the facts also okay when you do it?
I’m gonna take a break while the bots and state department shills get their talking points worked out; so they can explain and justify how this is legal by international standards.
Maybe you should join hexbear
Maybe you should explain how it’s okay for America to steal from another country?
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Then they should take the ship, and give back the oil. This isn’t about law, it’s about power and control. And it should be considered wrong by any decent, civilized person.
I think you are being unreasonable in that argument. It’s not like they have the oil in cargo containers and can transfer it from one ship to another outside of port. The oil IS the ship.
Sure they could dump it in the ocean? Which would be the dumbest of all options.
Or they could seize the ships, and tow them back to port. Which looks like the options they took.
You should read up on what’s happening before commenting.
So now I have to prove my geopolitical stance on an engineering and logistics problem?
I can only give the facts, what people do with the politics is their own prerogative.
It is about power and control. We are uaing sanctions on Iran and many officials in Iran as leverage for the nuclear deal as well as other human rights violations. And this company fucked up real bad, otherwise we would have let them do it. So much oil gets sold in Iran, blended in Malaysia, and sold to China at a reduced price for accepting the contraband oil.
US sanctions on Iran are resulting in harm to the country’s environment and preventing everyone there - including migrants and Afghan refugees - from fully enjoying their rights to health and life, and contributing to other factors such as rising air pollution
Iran is violating the human rights of all living there. Do you have such a weak memory? And while they do that they want to build nukes? Fucks sake.
Another country? What are you talking about my dude? An American company bought oil from Iran (in violation of US law), and had the oil they bought seized.
You’re late. And that’s not what happened.
It takes all of three minutes to click through to the court order here. All three companies do significant business in the US, but the money to buy the oil was US dollars, and came from Oaktree Capital which is based in Los Angeles.
Which is (and this might be a shocker) in the USA.
Iran is not the USA. The sanctions aren’t recognized. Therefore, any laws America makes does not have to be complied with.Your arguing US law. I’m arguing international. They are not the same. The United States of America does not have authority over the world, despite what you wish. Source. Even the UN says the sanctions are illegal.
your arguing US law. I’m arguing international. They are not the same.
No shit… these companies operate in the US, which makes US law applicable to them.
international law?
this is the kind of badassery i want to read about my Government getting up to… fuck the CCP any way we can, boys…
So, you’d be okay if another country seized American oil for… reasons?
the CCP is a fascist criminal enterprise that i’m at war with… i’m not going to bother arguing principles where they’re concerned… they’re all liars…
This affects Iran not China. They’ll just get the oil somewhere else. Your hatred for China, which may be justified, is irrelevant in this case. Don’t let your hatred for China cause you to overlook when America is clearly doing something that is internationally condemned. This will lead to blowback.
Iran blows just as much, fuck them too
Yeah, let’s just glass the fucking world, so the 200,000 people left can ice skate in the Summer.
You’re right, China’s going to end the world over an oil shipment. Using all 2 braincells today?
How is this okay for you? We just stole oil from a sovereign country because of sanctions we unilaterally placed on them. Why are you okay with this?
That is your justification for criminal behaviour?
By that logic every country in the world would be right to bomb the US into rubbles.
It is no wonder, that the US is losing its grip on soft power, as they violate international rules and say “haha we have the military for it fuck you.” The US will end up being that isolated military dicatorship everyone else hates, but noone does something about because they got nukes. With this fascist attitude of the american people, that you also like to rub into everyones face, you’ll eventually be like North Korea.
why do you care
Because we live in a global society. And America being a bully will push countries to side with China. There’s a reason 40 countries wanted to join BRICS. They’re tired of being bullied by America. If you love America, you should want it to act with fairness internationally. The golden rule: Would you want other countries to do this to America?
bunch of whiney bullshit and fake morality… our enemies can eat shit…
I’m sure that’s why they feel the same way about us.
Tank(ie) you for your service!
Your a child, and that’s not even funny.
Oh crap, you’re at war with the CCP?
aww that’s just me having some internet fun with the Chinese spy shop running that account, don’t get upset
So privateer is a legitimate profession again?
The government served them a court order, they turned the ship around and handed it over. No US naval involvement, etc.
Always has been. U.S. Constitution Article 1, Section 8, clause 11.
And we wonder why they hate us.
How dare we take a stand against genocide.
So countries aren’t sovereign now?
Edit: I can’t find any info. What genocide?
Iran can sell their oil to whomever can buy it.
But this was apparently a US company violating US law, so…to your point…the US’s sovereign right to enforce their law and confiscate contraband from their citizen.
The company is located out of Greece. So not a US company.
Liar
So I was wrong in this specific case. But they’ve been seizing oil since 2019. How is this okay?
fastest-moving goalpost in the West
They’re talking about China.
The article is about Iran. Why is Iran being punished for a Chinese genocide?
They bought the Kool aid?
Genocide is wrong. (wild hot take I know)
Maybe every country should stop it.
If any one country stopped trade with every country that did genocide, they wouldn’t have many trading partners.The article has more to do with the Iranian revolutionary guard, but they somehow sold oil to China.
The antichina people jump on every article that mentions China.
Who got the oil? The US?
There’s more than one to pick from, but I’ll go with having 2 X chromosomes as my least favorite
They killed all the women? That seems I’ll conceived.
A lot of women are killed or severely punished for normal activities. They would not be harmed if they were men.
What’s it called when you kill a group of people who share a particular national or genetic trait?
Not the subject.
Good luck with your lead poisoning issue
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How does seizing oil mean we’re standing against genocide? Where is the connection?
The article mentions sanctions against Iran. I think China was buying the oil.
The US commited genocide in Iraq and helped genocide in Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cambodia…
The US claiming to take a stand against genocide is laughable at best.
It is completely cynical though, because the US still buys plenty of products that are made in chinese labor camps. It is crazy how much kool-aid americans drink and how deep they managed to put their heads up their own ass.
It is crazy how much kool-aid americans drink and how deep they managed to put their heads up their own ass.
… You said in an article where a US ship willingly returned oil to a US dock because it was in violation of US trade sanctions. Could you please at least read up on the event before you decide to act high and mighty?
We? You’re posting on a nz server
Wait til you find out about this fun little thing called “federation”
are you from mali?
no i don’t… why would i wonder that… i want them to be sleepless at night because of me…
What an immature response.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The US government seized nearly 1 million barrels of Iranian crude oil allegedly bound for China, according to newly unsealed court documents and a statement released by the Department of Justice on Friday.
“This is the first-ever criminal resolution involving a company that violated sanctions by facilitating the illicit sale and transport of Iranian oil,” according to the DOJ.
The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, a US-designated foreign terrorist organization, allegedly shipped more than 980,000 barrels of oil, the press release stated.
The DOJ claimed that “multiple entities affiliated with Iran’s IRGC and the IRGC-Qods Force” were involved in the scheme to “disguise the origin of the oil” and illegally sell it to China, according to court documents.
The court filings also show allegations that “profits from oil sales support the IRGC’s full range of malign activities, including the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, support for terrorism and both domestic and international human rights abuses.”
In April, the company operating the ship carrying the oil, Empire Navigation, pleaded guilty to conspiring to violate the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.
The original article contains 239 words, the summary contains 184 words. Saved 23%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
