You must log in or register to comment.
Step 1: hit snooze
Step 2: use the extra time to build dual power and/or electoral reform.
Note: The time to build an alternative to the DNC for 2024 was no less than 4 years ago. The time to start building the coalition for 2028 starts no later than December 2024.
Note: the time to build dual power is any day you can afford the time, acumen, and experiense.
Step 3: hit snooze again.
Voting doesn’t change anything. Not voting kills us.
We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.
These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.
Voting doesn’t change anything. Not voting kills us.
We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.
These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.
This is what I’ve been trying to tell people, especially young lefties.
It just does not make sense to me why you would look at a broken system which gives a massive advantage to one party, see that the people trying to fix the system all belong to the other party, and arrive at the conclusion that both parties are equally at fault and the only solution is to throw your hands up in invisible protest.
It would be one thing if they just said they didn’t care, but they seem to be convinced they are actually able to affect change this way.
It’s like finding yourself in a fist fight and seeing your buddy just standing there laughing.
We need to get ourselves some Approval Voting and some kind of proportional representation (linked is one way you can use approval in a proportional election)!
Approval voting, STAR voting, Ranked-choice voting- I don’t care, just get me out of this first-past-the-pole nightmare!
Yeah I agree, arguably the proportional representation part is more important, but it’s easier to start small and then repurpose your organization for bigger goals. I push for approval because:
-
practically anything is way better than FPTP
-
It requires zero voter education to implement
-
it can easily be adapted to any kind of winner system
-
A whole bunch of other stuff that gets into graphs and voting criterion and shit like that
-
Worked sooo great the last time.
This, but unironically. Considering the fact that right-wing violence has decreased, Ukraine has remained standing, and fascist rhetoric is on the decline.
If you’re dissatisfied with the results, consider engaging in the aforementioned tactics instead of yelling at people who have a plan.
This, but unironically.
WDYM, the system is still the bad-vs-worse with no path to citizen interests in sight.
consider engaging in the aforementioned tactics
I can’t.
instead of yelling at people who have a plan
to fail again. But you’re right, that’s your country to blow.
Have you considered that complaining about Americans voting when you don’t need to live with the consequences is, perhaps, not exactly good form?
Have you considered that I could be living with the consequences? USpol dysfunction has an unpleasantly wide reach across the globe.
Okay. Please describe what you course of action you’re advocating for and the intended results.
The majority, including the slice that votes the lesser evil because they don’t want the larger evil, realizes the current sports team rivalry is no substitute for a government, coordinates and votes independent. US gets a government representing the interests of Americans until either the lobbying mechanism gets eradicated or the government gets repurchased anew. Yes, I know, I am idealistic.
I really dont understand americans, they are so proud of their weapons yet can’t control them so theres a school-shooting every month or so. But when there is a grown-up (politician/capitalist) they suddenly dont have their guns anymore?
It seems shooting kids is easier then shooting the evil people. Not that I would ever do either…
just saying, dead people cannot maintain a broken system.
I really dont understand americans
Politicians strategically used gun rights as a wedge issue to ensure that the segment of the population with the most guns are more likely to be intensely loyal to the fascist continent of our political class. Furthermore, our law enforcement has more and even bigger guns.
“Furthermore, our law enforcement has more and even bigger guns”
yes, but guns kill people. if you manage to shoot someone in the head, say from a window/balcony in a hotel, they are dead. regardless of bigness of gun.
The people with bigger guns ought to protect the children or something.
Are you high?
depends on whos asking.
You can’t fix the system when its working as intended. The system needs to be torn down and rebuilt
I needed a small and quippy option for the meme, but I agree, in this context that would qualify as a “fix”.
This is an original? Props! We rarely have these on Lemmy… It’s good as well!
Yeah. I made It in inkscape. Happy you like it.
Wow cool meme bro x
No way! Inkscape is sick! I gotta learn it more… Only made some buttons with it for now…
So what’s the solution here? I’ve heard a lot of stuff about how stuff should be, but the options are not particularly promising. As I see it:
-
vote local, wait for change to filter up (counterpoint: that’s over a long time range, and for every incremental change it seems like there’s a Citizen’s United, Roe vs. Wade, and PATRIOT Act working in BIG ways in the opposite direction)
-
vote Biden and try to push him left (counterpoint: hahahaha… oh, sorry, I mean yeah, it has worked to a certain degree when it doesn’t cost him anything or when literally the rest of the Democratic world is against him like with Israel, and only to a small degree, but major changes? Good luck)
-
Full on revolution (counterpoint: most of the armed and violent people are on the fascist side and have been giddy over the prospect of Civil War 2.0 since Obama took office)
-
just hold your nose and vote Biden, press and support the Democratic Party to block ways for The Fascists to get more power… register Republican in super red areas to push them away from Fascism, and generally focus on stopping the Fascists first and if we can get back to where we were in the 90s/early 00s, focus on making those big changes. But focus on stopping the Fascists before you lose everything (counterpoint: that is exactly what the people in power want, to give a unending battle to keep what you have so you can’t push for more, and instead lose it all by inches).
-
Don’t vote, let the Fascists burn it all down, and pick up the pieces to make our Utopia from the ashes like the Federation after the Eugenic Wars. (Counterpoint: …do I need to point out how silly this is? If the Fascists even manage to burn it down instead of doing what Fascists do and expand the crazy and make the world a battleground, the type of people who “rise from the ashes” are rarely the good, Democratic, peace-loving kind. Sorry Star Trek)
I’m not seeing good options, so if anyone can say another option, or how my conclusions are incorrect, I’d love to get new information. But it seems like choosing the best of bad options, and anything but voting Biden (and Democrats) is the path to suffering. As bad as it is, it can always get worse.
-
Saying “the system is working as intended” is wrong on so many levels. The system was cobbled together and you’re relieving the ones abusing the system of their blame.
And how many people are you willing to kill to do that?
Find the leftist candidate.
Oh, wait you cant?
Better post propaganda that promotes a fascist. That will fix everything. Yup.
If you can’t find a leftist candidate, fuckin be the leftist candidate.
I probably should have put a check on the blue and remove the third option. That would have made it clearer.
Nothing wrong with snoozing. Just don’t expect it to fix anything.
Can’t fix anything if we use all our resources preventing regression. Snooze implies we go back to sleep for 4 years.
🟥 go back to sleep (bad dreams)
🟦 get up (get to work)
⬜ sit there (along for the ride)
This is in the context of voting. Voting blue will achieve nothing other than delaying. The point of the meme is to encourage people to not just vote, but to actively engage in politics in order to make things better. Basically the same thing you said.
It will achieve nothing other than the first president to walk a picket line, progress on infrastructure and climate change, and a president vocal on womens and LGBT rights
Nothing. At. All.
I swear progressives wither dont know how to read or are so high on their own farts they cant smell anything else.
It will achieve nothing other than the first president to
Both candidates have already been president. Or have the Democrats decided not to have Biden run again?
And he will still have done the things i said he did.
I get it. You’re mad the US hasnt achieved fully automated gay space communism.
However, progress is made in baby steps, not in massive overnight societal change. That always, always, always results in a much, much worse totalitarian situation.
Which, by the way, you are advocating for.
Weren’t you the one complaining people don’t know how to read?
Nobody in this thread is advocating not voting for Biden. The opposite in fact. People are being honest that Biden getting elected is simply treading water, Trump getting elected is sinking.
Of course you vote to not sink, but don’t expect that to improve things. You then continue to do other things that will actually improve things until the next election.
Love it, though would have put “abolish the system” rather than “fix the system” myself, since that implies trying to work within the existing framework, rather than completely outside of it.
That is a fair point. Although there is a point to be made that “the system” is democracy and overthrowing a government that doesn’t represent the population is a part of the system. But I agree that most people probably don’t think that way.
If you can think of any improvements feel free to make changes and upload your own version.
I see what you’re saying, and I think it would probably appeal more to those with left leanings who aren’t actually anarchists (yet 🤞), because it isn’t as big a shock to the system to think about fixing a thing they know vs abolishing that thing and starting something completely unfamiliar and most likely still foreign to them (even as an anarchist, thinking outside of the indoctrination, and constructs I’ve/we’ve been socialised with since birth can be a challenge), but then I’m also a big believer in not coddling people in to change - facing and sitting with the discomfort of seeing the box we’re kept in and starting to think outside of it is a huge and really important part of unlearning what we know and even how we are, so personally I generally favour blunt and to the point lol
I think having these conversations in the comments can be more helpful than posting an alternative, because the people your meme speaks to can read on and hopefully broaden their views!
personally I generally favour blunt and to the point lol
Me too!
I think having these conversations in the comments can be more helpful than posting an alternative, because the people your meme speaks to can read on and hopefully broaden their views!
This should be the goal of this community. To share memes that invite people to discuss them, so the comments can make them think. The meme acts as a gateway to deeper leftist thought in the comments.
How often do you see toppled democracies get replaced with something awesome? That seems like a pretty big risk.
Bad cop vs Good cop vs burn the precinct down and protect your own neighborhood.
It’s like those websites and applications that ask you:
Hey do you want to turn on this bullshit feature? [Yes] [Ask me again later]Hopefully good
Polictics
Well, when one of the three words (one of which is a number) in the title is spelled wrong, I’d have to give it a thumbs down.
Really? a typo and a spelling mistake is your bar for bad content? That seems a bit harsh.
Also this video sums up my feelings about english spelling.
https://youtu.be/TEsqY4MH40s?si=Y2CnBLoYCcCPLOj0&t=660I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying that “polictics” is a valid alternative spelling of “politics”? Or that, as in the video, misspellings are not your fault, they’re the fault of English?
Perhaps you live in a world where first impressions don’t matter, where what you do is not subject to quality control, and attention to detail doesn’t matter. Still, is it too much to ask that people pay attention to spell check?
I’m not saying that everyone should be perfect all the time, but gracefully admitting mistakes and being slightly abashed, resolving to do better next time, would be a positive response.
“polictics” was a typo. the spelling part was for whatever mistake you found in the title. I should have probably been clearer about that, but I thought the distinction was obvious.
I may have responded a bit too harshly. For me a downvote means “This post is completely trash and should not exist”, so to hear that a single typo is enough to invalidate it made me a bit defensive. You are absolutely correct to point it out but I think a downvote is a bit too harsh.
Also I know that’s probably not what downvotes mean to you but considering how they affect rankings I see them this way because downvote=less score=less people see=should not be seen.
How?
If you don’t mind reading there is a lot of more specific questions and answers in this FAQ:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-fullThat’s great info and I’ll check it out. But I mean in regard to this meme: what do we do now? Because this meme seems to be addressing the 2024 general election in the US and it makes it seem like there’s 3 voting options. But to my knowledge, there isn’t a popular 3rd party that meets progressive or anarchistic values. So is this suggesting not to vote? Other direct action like a strike? And if so how does that address the issue of the election this brings up?
The third box is smaller to reflect that it isn’t a “real” option. I only added it because I thought only the two wouldn’t be fitting for this community (and also complaining without providing an alternative is not useful). It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”
In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?” and J.7.4 “What would a social revolution involve?”. These might help answer your questions.
In general there is no easy solution. For Americans to fix their system they need to fight for real democracy. I think trying to get rid of FPTP is a good start. However I do not put much faith in any election reform succeeding. My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.
I made this meme to just point out something I thought a lot about when scrolling through lemmy and that’s that voting isn’t enough because the best you can do is delay the inevitable. You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.
It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”
In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?
So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election? Because I feel that’s incredibly short-sighted and damaging. I agree with your points of working to get ranked choice voting and other measures passed in all states quickly. But people still need to vote against the obvious fascist candidate in the short term. Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for. And I’m in a privileged class. Vulnerable people have to do so much more to stay safe and a second Trump presidency will get thousands killed. No one’s going to have time to campaign against FPTP when they are organizing just to stay safe from government and militia persecution. If Trump gets elected again, it’s pretty much over. And anyone eager for a civil war hasn’t looked out enough to see what hell that is.
Anarchist Library: At its most basic, voting implies agreement with the status quo.
This is silly and reductive. Voting is damage control. Not voting is handing one of your only means of change and your voice away to your worst enemies. I’ll look into it more, but that’s a false premise to start on. It’s idealistic to the point of self-destruction.
You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.
Medicine doesn’t stop death forever, either. And until we can cure the fascism or put in enough barriers to prevent it, we still must survive in the short term. Diatribe over.
My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.
Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like? Because Americans have all the same communities and groups Europeans do: unions (lesser extent), religious groups, community organizations (school based, local government), LGBT+ organizations, local political orgs, hobby groups, etc. But I don’t see how that directly helps matters. They will provide community and potentially safe spaces, but only if they aren’t infiltrated. And if there’s a fascist government, there likely won’t be any groups outside government control. They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don’t control. So I guess I don’t understand what type of groups you are referring to.
Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for.
I think it’s worthwhile to point out that keeping yourself aware of what you’re organizing against is possibly the bare minimum of organizing.
I’m not advocating for a trump presidency, but I think this gives some credence to what accelerationists are saying
I wish more people who are concerned about the 2024 election would take that anxiety and join progressive groups now, not wait until after the election, because not only do you have the motivation to take action now it’s also a good way to push the conversation further left and put pressure on the 2024 candidates. I know my local DSA chapter has seen an uptick in new members, but I am quite certain I see a lot of people on here pulling their hair out over the stress but refusing to join a cause.
If you’re spending your time insisting people vote in order to kick the can down the road, then you should also be spending your time organizing for the cause now and not waiting until the crisis is postponed.
So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election?
As the meme says voting blue means a 4 year snooze. I am not telling anyone whether they should vote or not. Just pointing out how I see the current election. The points you make are sensible and I think if I were in the USA I would vote because of the reasons you listed.
I’m copying some quotes from the FAQ that I think fit in this conversation.
But considering the state of the US I think that at the moment voting is a useful tactic to buy time for organizing, not a solution.J.2.8: anarchists don’t just say “don’t vote”, we say “organise” as well.
J2.5 last paragraph: […] anarchists urge abstentionism in order to encourage activity, not apathy. Not voting is not enough, and anarchists urge people to organise and resist as well.
And when it comes to the last paragraph I must admit I am short of ideas. All of the groups you listed have a chance of helping, organization doesn’t need to start with a political group, once you have a group together you can start talking about anarchist organization and see how people react.
As an anarchist I believe that revolution starts with the people. Get enough people together with a common goal (or a shared dream if you want to be poetic) and you will have a revolution. This might seem pointless since you’re so small, but every revolution needs to start somewhere. And I believe only a revolution can fix the USA right now.
There are also some anarchist orgs like http://iww.org. I wish I knew more.
They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don’t control.
That’s why it’s important to create these groups now. Once the fascist are in power it’s too late.
Not an American, but in a country well within the imperial interior (Australia). Jesus Christ, go vote, and go vote for the less shit candidates (the democrats).
The voting system is entirely broken, granted, but you not voting does not help.
It we vassals of the US get the MAGAs in charge, shit is going to hit the fan, and unlike you, we can’t do anything about it other than plead with you to go vote.
First-past-the-post means go vote for the less shit candidate.
@Val oh that’s a good one!
What’s the third icon?
Anarchism. But it is meant to signify any kind of leftist ideology. I just chose anarchism.
Just looks like republicans and not caring at the same time aka Accelerationism.
Not my fault USA decided to use red for the conservatives, even though red as been the socialists’ color since we began.
The Republicans use Red B/C lots of Lincoln’s supporters read Marx.
Then the parties changed.
