muslims can’t even get along amongst themselves lmao, just look at
syria ( do i even need to elaborate?)
or suni vs shi (saudi arabia vs iran)
or yemen where not a single jew exists today
or jordan which fought Palestinianians regularly
or Lebanon which was once a christian majority
or sudan or iraq or qatar which has literal slaves
seriously muslims are known for tolerance? are you high?
nah, “the lesson to draw was that the Nazis clearly had the right intentions but the wrong targets, tho it was the Jews fault they got captured and killed in concentration camps” ~current Israeli ruling coalition when talking about the victims of the holocaust.
most of the Jews that went and settled in Israel after the Holocaust were primarily from regions that Nazis never occupied, they came to create their ethno-state, ironically they also despise the survivors as failures who didn’t fight back, even more ironically most of the survivors of the Holocaust were critics of the Zionists (who could have guessed the victims of fervent nationalism actually had something against that very same thing?).
I think that’s the funniest/saddest aspect of all this. My kids are half Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish so needless to say I am well aware of the complexity of the history surrounding Israel and Palestine.
Even the history of zionism is more complex, and it has been captured by the worst demons of the ideology.
Sure, it’s inherently problematic for anyone who values the separation of state and religion, and in a modern political landscape it does read like a recipe for disaster. Based on the old testament and Jewish history however, it’s easy to see the romantic appeal of Zion without it at all justifying the terrors of modern zionism.
So I agree with your point completely - I just wouldn’t treat Zion as a slur. That said I also don’t think zionism in its contemporary form has any legitimate role to play, and it’s a cancer on the world like so many isms before it.
Assuming you’re not baiting it’s an extremely complex answer of which there are a multitude of factors including but not limited to
Religious exceptionalism (they are the chosen children of G-d)
Inability to adequately separate religious identity from cultural identity (a criticism of one is a criticism of the other)
Right wing lunacy (fuck Benjamin)
Superiority complex (see point one)
Historical prescident removing ability to discuss
For each of these points there is a lot and I mean a fuckton of nuance. But as someone who has spent the better part of 20 years in and around the community despite all the good people and caring people and loving people there is this underbelly that can do no wrong and cannot be reasoned with. There is a part in any conversation around the discussion of Israel and Palestine where there is no dialogue.
In that, both sides have failed spectacularly but it has to be stated that only one side has the full unequivocal support of the US government and yet still behaves like a bully in the playground because of something that happened years ago.
Hurt people hurt people. I would argue that Jews as a people continue to have trauma from WW2.
Now before anyone flips their shit remember that people are entitled their opinions and regardless of if you agree or disagree I’d like to think when it comes to what I have experienced those opinions are valid.
Well, some Jews have lost the plot, and certainly Jewish communities are not immune to the sociological conditions that drive people towards segregationist politics and even genocides.
That is to say, we all lost the plot, but we love capitalism and imperialism more than we fear watching society devolve into hate, genocide and warfare.
The IDF took to annihilating Gaza like SWAT in the US to COD gamers in poor communities. If that’s not a sign to reconsider our priorities, I don’t know what is. But it certainly implies we’re still savage apes not ready for the big leagues of civilization and exploration.
Please don’t buy into the Israeli narrative that what they’re doing represents all of us. I’m a Jew, but I’m not an Israeli, and recognize that Hamas and the Israeli government both suck.
How in the fuck would one do something like this and still consider themself a mensch?
I was being rhetorical, but the answer is dehumanization, which is the height of irony considering how Israel came to exist in modernity.
Israel is a product of European Colonization. It predates WW1 and WW2. After learning more about it, IMO it shouldn’t exist as it does today.
Jews and Christians and Muslims lived in the area since the religions were invented, we don’t need a European colony to still exist.
Good luck fitting it all back in the box
Under strict Authoritarian Muslim rule. The Jews and Christians didn’t exactly have a lot of power in the area.
A European colony that displaced native folks is basically… everything.
Muslims are known for their tolerance towards other religions. That’s why all around the middle east you have thriving communities of pluralism.
muslims can’t even get along amongst themselves lmao, just look at syria ( do i even need to elaborate?) or suni vs shi (saudi arabia vs iran) or yemen where not a single jew exists today or jordan which fought Palestinianians regularly or Lebanon which was once a christian majority or sudan or iraq or qatar which has literal slaves
seriously muslims are known for tolerance? are you high?
I really don’t know how I could have phrased it more obviously ironic. But I guess you’re that dense lol
Maybe you are high?
Only a couple generations separate Auschwitz and Al-Shifa. The lesson we can draw from this is that ethnostates will always end in misery
nah, “the lesson to draw was that the Nazis clearly had the right intentions but the wrong targets, tho it was the Jews fault they got captured and killed in concentration camps” ~current Israeli ruling coalition when talking about the victims of the holocaust.
most of the Jews that went and settled in Israel after the Holocaust were primarily from regions that Nazis never occupied, they came to create their ethno-state, ironically they also despise the survivors as failures who didn’t fight back, even more ironically most of the survivors of the Holocaust were critics of the Zionists (who could have guessed the victims of fervent nationalism actually had something against that very same thing?).
I think that’s the funniest/saddest aspect of all this. My kids are half Jewish. My ex-wife is Jewish so needless to say I am well aware of the complexity of the history surrounding Israel and Palestine.
But damn if Jews have lost the plot.
Agreed, but let’s use the term z*onist because there are plenty of Jews who denounce this despicable regime.
Even the history of zionism is more complex, and it has been captured by the worst demons of the ideology.
Sure, it’s inherently problematic for anyone who values the separation of state and religion, and in a modern political landscape it does read like a recipe for disaster. Based on the old testament and Jewish history however, it’s easy to see the romantic appeal of Zion without it at all justifying the terrors of modern zionism.
So I agree with your point completely - I just wouldn’t treat Zion as a slur. That said I also don’t think zionism in its contemporary form has any legitimate role to play, and it’s a cancer on the world like so many isms before it.
Respectfully disagree. This ain’t about Zionism although it definitely plays a big part.
What’s it really about?
Assuming you’re not baiting it’s an extremely complex answer of which there are a multitude of factors including but not limited to
For each of these points there is a lot and I mean a fuckton of nuance. But as someone who has spent the better part of 20 years in and around the community despite all the good people and caring people and loving people there is this underbelly that can do no wrong and cannot be reasoned with. There is a part in any conversation around the discussion of Israel and Palestine where there is no dialogue.
In that, both sides have failed spectacularly but it has to be stated that only one side has the full unequivocal support of the US government and yet still behaves like a bully in the playground because of something that happened years ago.
Hurt people hurt people. I would argue that Jews as a people continue to have trauma from WW2.
Now before anyone flips their shit remember that people are entitled their opinions and regardless of if you agree or disagree I’d like to think when it comes to what I have experienced those opinions are valid.
Well, some Jews have lost the plot, and certainly Jewish communities are not immune to the sociological conditions that drive people towards segregationist politics and even genocides.
That is to say, we all lost the plot, but we love capitalism and imperialism more than we fear watching society devolve into hate, genocide and warfare.
The IDF took to annihilating Gaza like SWAT in the US to COD gamers in poor communities. If that’s not a sign to reconsider our priorities, I don’t know what is. But it certainly implies we’re still savage apes not ready for the big leagues of civilization and exploration.
Please don’t buy into the Israeli narrative that what they’re doing represents all of us. I’m a Jew, but I’m not an Israeli, and recognize that Hamas and the Israeli government both suck.
Agree. I’m generalizing there and I know there’s a large amount of Jews that are extremely upset and do not support Netanyahu.
They don’t. There’s 600 jews in the town of Hebron, population 215,000.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/a-guided-tour-of-hebron-from-two-sides-of-the-occupation
A source for the story. Despite the population imbalance the garbage-throwing (and acid pouring) is apparently true.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted for giving fairly accurate population numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron