• Gork@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Valve can’t count to 3 though.

      Expect after the Steam Deck 2 for its successors to be Steam Deck 2: Episode 1 and Steam Deck 2: Episode 2.

            • Grass@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              My Deck64 was turned into a 1tb before you could even buy them like that though. For anyone who had extra 2230s lying around and was going to use a screen protector anyways it was a no brainer.

              • GreenMario@lemm.ee
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                7 months ago

                I modified mine too but I tried to go the 512GB SD card route first and just install everything on that. Yeah still filled the internal storage. 1TB SSD is worth it. Now i just use the SD card for emudeck+roms.

      • tal@lemmy.today
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        7 months ago

        Valve can’t count to 3 though.

        Capcom had years of jokes on exactly that point with the Street Fighter series, but they eventually did release Street Fighter III.

        EDIT: For those not familiar, here’s the relevant portion of the series timeline:

        • Street Fighter

        • Street Fighter II: The World Warrior

        • Street Fighter II: Championship Edition

        • Street Fighter II: Hyper Fighting

        • Super Street Fighter II: The New Challengers

        • Super Street Fighter II Turbo

        • Street Fighter Alpha

        • Street Fighter: The Movie (the video game)

        • Street Fighter Alpha 2

        • X-Men vs. Street Fighter

        • Street Fighter EX

        • Street Fighter III: New Generation*

        • SchizoDenji@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          To be fair to Capcom, they did release Ace Attorney 3 quickly and it was the peak of the franchise.

      • ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        It would be free marketing if they went with that approach. I can already see the headlines: “Why the ‘Steam Deck 3’ is called the ‘Steam Deck: Episode 1’ and other 5 things with origins on the memeverse”

      • xantoxis@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Their problem is they already made a perfect game. Now they have to do it again. Doing something perfectly once can be chance, doing it twice is massively more difficult.

  • Hubi@feddit.de
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    7 months ago

    Interesting spin on the “A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad”-quote.

    • MeatsOfRage@lemmy.world
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      These quotes are from a time when games were stamped into hard plastic and circuitry. No Man’s Sky and Cyberpunk are two examples of games with rocky launches that are both amazing now. Saying a game is forever bad simply isn’t true anymore provided the makers stand behind the product.

      • Pleb@feddit.de
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        7 months ago

        But they don’t most of the time. If you aren’t very lucky like with No Man’s Syk or Cyberpunk, you are stuck with an abandonend pile of garbage. And even with those games, it would have been better for everyone involved if they were what they are now from the start.

            • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              While we’re at it, mad props to facepunch. Rust was always a great game. Even through the weird bits with xp and blueprint scraps and aimcone, it always felt like a complete game.

              Granted, I’m not touching it again unless a new plague shuts everything down for a month or I quit my job, but if you have 18 hours to waste every day it’s the best game ever.

          • Pleb@feddit.de
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            7 months ago

            Sad as that sounds, I’m sure there are some poor souls who are up for it.

            • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              From everything I’ve heard, 76 is a lot better now, I am planning on playing it with a friend… Sometime… Ha

              • tal@lemmy.today
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                7 months ago

                It’s a lot better, but it’s not Fallout 5, which is what I think a lot of people – including myself – actually wanted.

                If you wanted to play a game in the Fallout universe with some of your friends or your spouse or something, then, yeah, I can see Fallout 76 being a legitimate fit.

                But Bethesda built up a fan base around a franchise that liked playing an immersive, story-oriented, highly-moddable game where the main character is kind of core to the story. They moved to a genre where xxPussySlayer69xx is jetpacking around, the story couldn’t matter much past the initial part of the game (since the point of the online portion is to have people replaying relatively-cheap-to-produce content), that couldn’t be modded much (to keep balance and players from cheating), and where the player’s character cannot matter much, because there are many player characters.

                They did make some things that I’d call improvements, like shifting away from PvP (the Fallout 76 playerbase has not shown a lot of enthusiasm for it) and reducing the emphasis on survival mechanics (it turns out that focusing a lot on gathering food and water can kind of detract from playing the rest of the game if you have limited time to play with other people).

                But Fallout 76 just fundamentally cannot be Fallout 5, because it’s aimed at online play, replaying the same events over and over. It can be a lot better at being an online-oriented Fallout-themed game than Fallout 76 was at release, and they did that.

                People complaining about, say, the lack of human NPCs in the initial release are complaining that they want that kind of single-player-oriented game. Bethesda put some in, true enough, shifted things a little towards earlier games in the series. But they have not and were not going to convert the game into Fallout 5.

                There have been franchises that have spanned multiple video game genres. Think of, say, Star Wars. But I’m not sure how often there are long-running video game franchises that shift to other genres successfully. If Capcom decided to make a 4X Mega Man game, or a dating sim Mega Man game, I’m not sure that things would go well.

                Granted, Fallout 76 is closer to earlier 3D Fallout games than a hypothetical Mega Man dating sim would be. But I think that there are some important, not immediately-obvious divergences from what made the series popular.

                • restingboredface@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  Bethesda built up a fan base around a franchise that liked playing an immersive, story-oriented, highly-moddable game where the main character is kind of core to the story. They moved to a genre where xxPussySlayer69xx is jetpacking around, the story couldn’t matter much past the initial part of the game (since the point of the online portion is to have people replaying relatively-cheap-to-produce content), that couldn’t be modded much (to keep balance and players from cheating), and where the player’s character cannot matter much, because there are many player characters.

                  For real. I know every Fallout fan says this, but I don’t even need a new Fallout game-a remaster of new Vegas or even FO3 would be awesome. I know that’s not easy but it’s less work than designing a whole new game. Sometimes devs could save themselves a lot of trouble and aggravation if they listened to the fanbase instead of trying to tell us what we want

              • Pleb@feddit.de
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                7 months ago

                Supposedly. But I was never a fan of the Bethesda Fall Outs, so I’d just never play FO76 in the first place.

      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        But the damage is lasting. NMS will always be known for the absolute shitshow it was on launch. Props to them for eventually delivering, but the game will never be as iconic as it could have been. Like compare bg3’s reception of “holy shit it’s so good” vs NMS’s “oh it’s finally good now.”

        • Mereo@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          Indeed. I always read in forums people asking if NMS is worth playing now. Imagine if it had a great launch from the beginning. It would’ve been much more successful and wouldn’t have a bad reputation like it does know.

      • e-ratic@kbin.social
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        7 months ago

        NMS is better since release but saying it’s amazing now is a bit of an embellishment. At its core it’s the same game with all the fundamental issues it always had, there’s just more fluff added on.

        • Morgoon@startrek.website
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          7 months ago

          Out of all my VR games almost none make it into double digits playtime (notable exceptions, Beat Saber and Boneworks) but I have logged hundreds of hours in NMS VR. No other VR experience comes close in terms of content.

        • jaspersgroove@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          I mean, IMO it’s good enough to get your moneys worth out of it, its a hell of a lot of fun actually. It’s just that the main storyline is relatively short and the gameplay loop after completing the main story is not engaging enough to make it one of those games that you end up sinking 500+ hours into. To me that puts it in the same tier as Subnautica.

      • LillyPip@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        On the other hand, making me a beta tester for games I paid AAA prices for leaves me with a very negative feeling. You only get one chance to make a good first impression.

        • tal@lemmy.today
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          7 months ago

          Also, while some genres can be fixed after release, some can’t because they aren’t very replayable.

          A number of adventure games, for example – you’re probably not going to play through them many times. If you blow the initial release, you kind of blew the experience.

      • darthelmet@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I think it depends on if the bad game has enough public attention that it can get a second chance after launch. When No Man’s Sky and Cyberpunk got updated, the story was plastered all over the game news channels/sites.

        Most games if they get off to a bad start, nobody gives them a second thought. How would you even know if it got better? If nobody is newly buying and reviewing it, the steam reviews won’t reflect the change in quality.

        There’s something to be said for the unfairness of which of these games that botch their launch get that second chance, but it kinda is what it is. People can’t pay attention to everything.

        • tal@lemmy.today
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          7 months ago

          the steam reviews won’t reflect the change in quality.

          Actually, Steam now does have two separate ratings. One is for lifetime rating, and the other is for recent ratings.

          • darthelmet@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I know, but that still requires that some people give the game another look and review it. That works for games that people keep checking on to see if it’s good yet, not so much for some no name game that people don’t give a second thought to when it turns out bad at launch.

      • fibojoly@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        The question bring why you’d keep working on something you got money for. Especially when you’ve been shown time and time again that people keep buying your games anyway. Seems more cost effective to pay those marketing people than your code monkeys…

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    7 months ago

    Not sure why we’re arguing this quote with the same two games over and over. Nms and cyberpunk are great games, but they’re a rarity.

    Game Dev crunch is a plague in th industry, we suffer as consumers who cop bad releases on release. The whole industry could learn from its roots and delay things for a better initial product.

    Defending the current practice of redevelopment in post is almost consumer gaslighting.

    • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      Plus, the base game itself should be good. It shouldn’t need updates. Post-game launch updates should be enhancements, not fixes.

      • Pogbom@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Seriously, we need to return to pre-internet console mentality. You put out an N64 game, it better be goddamn finished. Companies rely way too much on “ehh can just patch it”.

        • whofearsthenight@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          I mean, modern games are many times more complex so the idea of putting out a “finished” game these days is more like “this is an acceptable level of bugs/most players won’t hit this.” The problem is that the acceptable level has shifted way too fucking far in the wrong direction to the point where in some cases we’re barely getting an alpha, much less a beta. In general, I have no problem with companies putting out good games that get better, like tuning for performance so you get better FPS, it’s player on lower spec machines, etc. I don’t like the idea of paying to be a beta tester for two years, and not getting the good game until way later.

        • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I’m not arguing in favor of companies putting out shoddy gamesor the practice of games needing patches to fix glaring issues, but suggesting that the 90s and early 2000s were the days of totally flawless games seems like a result of survivorship bias.

          We remember the great games from those days, but there were mountains of shovelware games releasing with all the problems we see today.

          Even many good or great games from those days have problems that either remain unfixed, or have only been fixed years later by fans.

    • Wumbologist@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I would even say NMS is a good example of this sentiment. The game has been good for years now and has had tons of free updates. There’s a lot of people out there who just don’t care and you can see this in forums whenever the game makes news. People still show up to decry the game for how terrible the release was.

      Public sentiment on the game and the studio is still pretty mixed

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      7 months ago

      The fact that it’s only the same two games is more of an argument against than for, honestly. With all of the awful launches people can think of two games that were redeemed.

      That’s bad.

    • IndefiniteBen@leminal.space
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      7 months ago

      I think a big difference with both is that they’re not big multiplayer titles that are looking to make money with cosmetics.

      If a multiplayer focused game is shit at launch, it won’t get a good user base and then it’s as good as dead.

      • FunctionFn@feddit.nl
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        7 months ago

        Both Destiny and Destiny 2 had really poor launches. Then they cleaned up their act and we’re very successful and had thriving playerbases. Light fall and this past year notwithstanding…

        • AeroLemming@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          I fucking loved the Forsaken expansion and felt that it was worth the money. I got Black Armory not realizing it wasn’t an expansion like Forsaken and was so fucking disappointed. I eventually quit because they kept making the game worse.

          • FunctionFn@feddit.nl
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            7 months ago

            Destiny 2’s been a real roller coaster. Forsaken was the best it ever was, so you haven’t missed much imo.

    • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world
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      I’m not defending the need for post-launch patches to fix glaring issues and I’m not defending crunch, but suggesting that buggy releases and crunch haven’t been with gaming since the earliest days of the industry seems like putting on rose colored glasses. There is a lot to damn about the current industry, but painting the root days of the industry as free of those same issues just to make the comparison seems unrealistic.

  • tal@lemmy.today
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    I don’t disagree that often an early release can really kill a game. I think that Fallout 76 would have done much better had it not gone out the door for a while, and I think that the poor quality at release really hurt reception; despite Bethesda putting a lot of post-release work into the game, a lot of people aren’t going to go back and look at it. CDPR and Cyberpunk 2077 might have done better by spending more time or deciding to cut the scope earlier in development too. But, a few points:

    • First, game dev is not free. The QA folks, the programmers, all that – they are getting paid. Someone has to come up with money to pay for that. When someone says “it needs more time”, they’re also saying “someone needs to put more money in”.

    • Second, time is money. If I invest $1 and expect to get $2 back, when I get that $2 matters a lot. If it’s in a year, that’s a really good deal. If it’s in 20 years (adjusting for inflation), that’s a really bad deal – you have a ton of lower-risk things than you could do in that time. Now, we generally aren’t waiting 20 years, but it’s true that each additional month until there is revenue does cut into the return. That’s partly why game publishers like preorders – it’s not just because it transfers risk of the game sucking from them to the customers, but also because money sooner is worth more.

    • Third, I think that there are also legitimate times when a game’s development is mismanaged, and even if it makes the publisher the bad guy, sometimes they have to be in a position of saying “this is where we draw the line”. Some games have dev processes that just go badly. Take, say, Star Citizen. I realize that there are still some people who are still convinced that Star Citizen is gonna meet all their dreams, but for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that it isn’t, that development on the game has been significantly mismanaged. There is no publisher in charge of the cash flow, no one party to say “This has blown way past many deadlines. You need to focus on cutting what needs to be cut and getting something out the door. No more pushing back deadlines and taking more cash; if the game does well, you can do DLC or a sequel.”

    EDIT: I think that in the case of Cities: Skylines 2, sure, you can probably improve things with dev time. But I also think that the developer probably could have legitimately looked at where things were and said “okay, we gotta start cutting/making tradeoffs” earlier in the process. Like, maybe it doesn’t look as pretty to ship with reduced graphical defaults, but maybe that’s just what should have been done. Speaking for myself, I don’t care that much about ground-level views or simulated individuals in a city-builder game, and that’s a lot of where they ran into problems – they’re spending a lot of resources and taking on a lot of risk for something that I just don’t think is all that core to a city-builder game. I think that a lot of the development effort and problems could have been avoided had the developer decided earlier-on that they didn’t need to have the flashiest city sim ever.

    Sometimes a portion of the game just isn’t done and you might be better-off without it. Bungie has had developers comment that maybe they shouldn’t have shipped with The Library level in Halo. My understanding is that some of the reason that different portions of the level look similar is that originally, the level was intended to be more open, and they couldn’t make it perform acceptably that way and had to close off areas from each other. I didn’t dislike as much as some other people, but maybe it would have been better not to ship it, or to significantly reduce the scope of the level.

    I mean, given an infinite amount of dev time and resources, and competent project management, you can fix just about everything. Some dev timelines are unrealistic, and sometimes a game can be greatly-improved with a relatively-small amount of time. My point is that sometimes the answer is that you gotta cut, gotta start cutting earlier, and then rely on a solid release and putting whatever else you wanted to do into DLC or maybe a sequel.

    I won’t lie: That’s the kind of talk that really makes me wish Valve would quit playing around with Steam and weird hardware experiments, and go back to making new games.

    I don’t agree at all. There’s one Valve and Steam. If it’s not Valve, it’s gonna be Microsoft or someone, and I’d much rather have Valve handling the PC game storefront than Microsoft. There are lots of game developers and publishers out there that could develop a game competently, but not many in Valve’s position.

    • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I think that pretty much every great game, especially those boxed and released before digital distribution, was made by a passionate and talented team.

      I’m just about certain that every team on those games would have at least one person pushing for more development time to make it just a little bit better.

      It’s a romantic idea to say devs should have all the time in the world, but somebody needs to be the voice saying, “No, it’s done. We are boxing it.”

      If enough of the development team can articulate why they need a delay, and if it looks like they are making actual progress, delays are good. If it’s just constant iteration and tweaks, that’s not enough justification.

  • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago

    This is true, but gamers are so impatient. I am in early access with my Virtual Reality Theme Park and have been busting it for 3 years as a solo dev, and of course it is not a full Theme Park yet. What does exist has put me into the top 10 on the Meta Quest App Lab store, but I get bounced out of the top 10 now and then as I will get 3* saying new rides are not coming fast enough. People are so impatient just like shareholders.

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Make sure you put in the description you are a small one dev team. Most people are reasonable and understand you can only do so much.

      People are way less patient with asshole AAA studios that crank out garbage because they waste time implementing micro transactions or bullshit DLCd

    • Litany@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Time was not the issue with HBO Got. The show runners ran out into the ground so they could move on and be done with it.

      • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Time was the issue. They ran out of time waiting for GRM, so they went their own way. If they had waited… We’d still be waiting, but wouldn’t have gotten the suck.

        • Zron@lemmy.world
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          You mean if they’d been competent show runners in the first place.

          The show was great when it was based off of good writing.

          Then it got sketchy as they had to rely on GRRM’s notes.

          Then the notes got more vague, and season 7 and 8 turned into garbage.

          Conclusion: D&D were mediocre show runners who couldn’t hire competent writers, and thought game of thrones was about subverting expectations instead of strong character arcs.

          Justifiably, it lost them their next gig.

          HBO was willing to wait for good seasons. But D&D wanted to get into a Star Wars contract with Disney. They rushed season 8 out the door with lazy writing to get that Star Wars deal.

          After season 8 traumatized GOT fans and bombed in reviews, Disney backed out of the deal, and D&D have fallen into obscurity.

  • misophist@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Suck is forever

    “Hard disagree.” – person who played FFXIV before the realm got reborn

      • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Apparently it managed to get worse. The leak of the 2001 build that people are patching up actually looks really cool.

        • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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          My understanding is that the released game was not a “descendant” of that 2001 preview. The game was totally scrapped and then a new iteration was started years later which is what eventually was released. So it’s not like the game was actually being worked on for a decade. More like the released game (which was only built over a couple of years) had the same name as a scrapped game from a decade prior.

          • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            That is precisely what happened.

            I was merely framing it that the 2001 build was seemingly on the road to being a good, or at least faithful Duke Nukem game but management kept dictating changes to it to keep up with gaming fads. Eventually Gearbox just shoved an entirely different build out the door.

            The 2001 build was victim to a lot of start-stop-start-stop development.

  • HarkMahlberg@kbin.social
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    Suck is forever.

    Unless you’re No Man’s Sky? Or Cyberpunk? Like games have been getting patches and updates for a long time, sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse. Maybe he means your reputation as a developer and as a publisher is forever tarnished no matter how well you patch up the game post-launch.

    In the days of Half Life 1? Yeah, it wasn’t really feasible to patch games after they got printed on discs and left the warehouse.

    • Briongloid@aussie.zone
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      I’m sure they got better, but they never won me back, that original feeling of disappointment is still associated with the games for me.

      • teft@startrek.website
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        I’m pretty sure this is what he means. It’s like first impressions with people. You only get one shot. Yes, you can improve the initial release to be playable and amazing but people will remember you put out a shit game to start with and that alienates people.

    • BananaTrifleViolin@kbin.social
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      Yeah reptuational is part of the issue but there is also a big financial issue too. Delaying a game is financially difficult as it affects financial projects for each year with shareholders (who only care about share price growth). If you release a game in a poor state you get to hit some of the financial targets which benefits the publisher particularly, but for the developer it means longer terms sales are much lower as reviews and feedback come in that the game is crap. You then have to patch and repair the game.

      Patching has allowed publishers and developers to get away with this releasing of games in bad states, but it doesn’t change that fundamental issue which disproportionately affects the developer. Dev studios often only have 1 game being worked on at a time. An unready early release which is poorly recieved can be an existential crisis. For publishers, a poorly recieved game is a disappointment but generally have other many other games also on release so they can move on and not care as much.

      No Man’s Sky and Cyberpunk are high profile exceptions. The gaming world is littered with abandoned flops, often due to not being ready for release.

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        7 months ago

        Agreed. And many of counterexamples belong to the Live Service model. Halo Infinite, Anthem, Evolve (I’m digging deep on that one), etc.

    • Maalus@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’ll never touch No Man’s Sky because of the rugpull they did. It is sucky to me forever. If they made that game from the start - I would probably be playing it.

    • Hyperreality@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      Also, games that are delayed too much sometimes end up being outdated and therefore relatively bad. Eg. Duke Nukem Forever.

        • tal@lemmy.today
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          7 months ago

          IIRC, though, that isn’t “give developer some more money and keep plugging”. It was “take the game in its current state, hand it to another developer to get it into a releasable state, and ship it”.

          googles

          Yeah. Basically, 3D Realms just kept kicking the can down the road. Gearbox took over, cleaned up what was there, and shipped it in half a year. It wasn’t the perfect, ideal 3D FPS, but I suspect that cleaning up what was there and making what return was possible (and at least getting the people who had preordered the game many years back) was probably the right move. I don’t think that 3D Realms was going to produce a huge success if they had another two years or something. It probably would have been a good idea to have wrapped up the project several years earlier than was the case.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever

          In 1996, 3D Realms released Duke Nukem 3D. Set apart from other first-person shooter games by its adult humor and interactive world, it received positive reviews and sold around 3.5 million copies.[8] 3D Realms co-founder George Broussard announced the sequel, Duke Nukem Forever, on April 27, 1997,[9] which he expected to be released by Christmas 1998. The game was widely anticipated.[8] Scott Miller, 3D Realms’ co-founder, felt the Duke Nukem franchise would last for decades across many iterations, like James Bond or Mario.[8] Broussard and Miller funded Duke Nukem Forever using the profits from Duke Nukem 3D and other games. They gave the marketing and publishing rights to GT Interactive, taking only a $400,000 advance.[8] 3D Realms also began developing a 2D version of Duke Nukem Forever, which was canceled due to the rising popularity of 3D games.[10]

          Rather than create a new game engine, 3D Realms began development using Id Software’s Quake II engine.[8] They demonstrated the first Duke Nukem Forever trailer at the E3 convention in May 1998. Critics were impressed by its cinematic presentation and action scenes, with combat on a moving truck.[8] According to staff, Broussard became obsessed with incorporating new technology and features from competing games and could not bear for Duke Nukem Forever to be perceived as outdated.[8] Weeks after E3, he announced that 3D Realms had switched to Unreal Engine, a new engine with better rendering capabilities for large spaces, requiring a reboot of the project.[8] In 1999, they switched engines again, to a newer version of Unreal Engine.[8]

          By 2000, Duke Nukem Forever was still far from complete. A developer who joined that year described it as a series of chaotic tech demos, and the staff felt that Broussard had no fixed idea of what the final game would be.[8] As the success of Duke Nukem 3D meant that 3D Realms did not require external funding, they lacked deadlines or financial pressure that could have driven the project. Broussard became defiant in response to questions from fans and journalists, saying it would be released “when it’s done”.[8] In December 2000, the rights to publish Duke Nukem Forever were purchased by Take-Two Interactive, which hoped to release it the following year.[11] By 2001, Duke Nukem Forever was being cited as a high-profile case of vaporware, and Wired gave it the “vaporware of the year” award.[12]

          At E3 2001, 3D Realms released another trailer, the first public view of Duke Nukem Forever in three years. It received a positive response, and the team was elated, feeling that they were ahead of their competitors. However, Broussard still failed to present a vision for a final product. One employee felt that Miller and Broussard were developing “with a 1995 mentality”, with a team much smaller than other major games of the time. By 2003, only 18 people were working on Duke Nukem Forever full time.[8] In a 2006 presentation, Broussard told a journalist the team had “fucked up” and had restarted development.[8] By August 2006, around half the team had left, frustrated by the lack of progress.[8]

          According to Miller, the Canadian studio Digital Extremes was willing to take over the project in 2004, but the proposal was rejected by others at 3D Realms. Miller later described this as a “fatal suicide shot”.[13] In 2007, 3D Realms hired Raphael van Lierop as the new creative director. He was impressed by the game and felt it could be finished within a year, but Broussard disagreed.[8] 3D Realms hired aggressively to expand the team to about 35 people. Brian Hook, the new creative lead, became the first employee to push back against Broussard.[8] In 2009, with 3D Realms having exhausted its capital, Miller and Broussard asked Take-Two for $6 million to finish the game.[8] After no agreement was reached, Broussard and Miller laid off the team and ceased development.[8] However, a small team of ex-employees, which would later become Triptych Games, continued developing the game from their homes.[14]

          In September 2010, Gearbox Software announced that it had bought the Duke Nukem intellectual property from 3D Realms and would continue development of Duke Nukem Forever.[15] The Gearbox team included several members of the 3D Realms team, but not Broussard.[15] On May 24, 2011, Gearbox announced that Duke Nukem Forever had “gone gold” after 15 years.[16] It holds the Guinness world record for the longest development for a video game, at 14 years and 44 days,[17] though this period was exceeded in 2022 by Beyond Good and Evil 2.[18]

          In 2022, Miller released a blog post on the Apogee website about 3D Realms’ failure to complete Duke Nukem Forever. He attributed it to three major factors: understaffing, repeated engine changes and a lack of planning.[13] On Twitter, Broussard responded that Miller’s claims were “nonsense”, described him as manipulative and narcissistic, and accused him of blaming others. He blamed Miller for the loss of 3D Realms and the Duke Nukem intellectual property.[13]

          I think that one key phrase there might be important: “As the success of Duke Nukem 3D meant that 3D Realms did not require external funding, they lacked deadlines or financial pressure that could have driven the project.” Like, this is maybe a good example of where they really did need someone outside the project to say “I need you to get milestones and a schedule in shape”, and where more money and time isn’t the right answer. It’s not that the project is on the cusp of amazing success and the people managing the project just mis-estimated the schedule by several months. It’s that they just aren’t anywhere near where they want to be and don’t have a realistic roadmap for getting there.

    • Lemonparty@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      In the days of Half Life 1

      Literally what the headline, article, and quote are about. Half life 1. When half life 1 released. When they delayed it because they didn’t want it to suck forever.

    • sigswitch@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      It’s an oversimplification, but first impressions do mean a lot. A lot of people will forever remember No Man’s Sky as being a terrible game, even though they did do a lot to fix it later.

  • Beefalo@midwest.social
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    7 months ago

    Mighty GabeN is getting pretty deep into his wizard years, I best prepare myself for his passing.

    • _danny@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The dude is 61, not even retirement age in the US. You don’t need to be dramatic just yet.

      • vividspecter@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        He’s been significantly overweight for most of his life, though, although a bit better than his worst these days… The beard makes him look older than he actually is, though.

        • tias@discuss.tchncs.de
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          7 months ago

          Yeah I don’t know why you’re getting down voted. Obesity shortens life expectancy by around 10 years. Life expectancy for men in the US was at 79 years before covid (it is now down to 73 years). Gabe is currently 61 years old so he can be expected to die by the end of this decade.

          • azdle@news.idlestate.org
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            7 months ago

            I’m not sure that applies to billionaires, who have unlimited access to the best possible medical care.

      • _danny@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Before anyone gets their “um actually” comment in…

        Yes, he would be eligible for retirement, but your average retirement eligible american isn’t expecting to retire until 65-70.

  • Destide@feddit.uk
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    7 months ago

    I dont think any creative would disagree shareholders and useless management however