If you vote for Genocide Joe you endorse genocide, no amount of cope will change that
Yup.
Similar to how they have a three paragraph response ready for how the guy who outlawed a strike is pro union.
“But he got them what theybwere asking for within 3 months”
He stopped a strike, full stop.
Even if he did get their requests 2 months later (spoiler, he absolutely fucking didnt) that’s two months and multiple biohazardous train derailment later when he could have done literally nothing and they would have gotten it immediatly.
But libs are going with the time proven electoral strategy of telling anybody with a valid complaint they’re wrong and don’t know how politics works.
I’ve been a staunch lesser evilist for a long time and even argued for it here, but Genocide support is my red line. If Biden changes tune and forces a ceasefire (I was going to say support, but of course biden could actually FORCE one signle handedly) then I might change my tune.
Granted, I didnt vote for him in 2020 either but that was because I dont live in a swing state. Its only because of this red line that I now am against voting for him regardless of where you live.
Like, I still have trouble not seeing FPTP voting in america as a trolley problem, and I havent intelectually wrapped my head around it yet, but I know Biden crossed a line for me and thats that.
I don’t want to come across as an accelerationist, but I am almost certain Democrats would have endorsed a ceasefire if Trump was president. He has a way of sharpening the contradictions so even the most false consciousness pilled lib can see the correct choice.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong actually. Dems opposed moving the embassy to Jerusalem when Trump was president IIRC.
You’re right but not necessarily because Trump heightens the contradictions. I think it’s just simple partisan politics. Supporting Israel is obligatory if you want to play ball with the American ruling class, either President would be supporting the genocide. But when you’re the opposition you have a lot to gain from taking the objectively correct position of condemning genocide, not a lot to lose (maybe some AIPAC funding but that might not outweigh the cost of staying silent).
Maybe that’s partisanship, but I don’t think any other Republican president would have the effectiveness at getting Democrats to make the right choice. Trump’s ability to piss off libs is unmatched and that humiliation and indignation definitely helps them see the contradictions.
It’s definitely true that he pisses them off unlike anything else in the world, but the liberal media also had the ‘world is ending every day’ vibe when W was in office, I remember. At least when they weren’t tripping over themselves to wave the flag harder than the right.
I’ve been saying this for a while.
When there’s a republ8can president liberals at least provide lip service to doing progressive things.
The only difference between a Democrat and republican president is when there’s a Democrat president liberals tell vulnerable people to shut up and stop complaining because they’re making them look bad.
Like how the concentration camps on the border and dejoy at the usps stopped being an issue overnight.
I paid more attention to politics once trump was elected. I learned more about what trump could and couldn’t do as president and how the damage could be prevented. I went to political protests and got active.
Watching the Democratic party describe him as evil while doing little to stop him really woke me up to the willful inaction going on. It finally clicked when I saw people waiting on the Mueller Report. A fed and self-identified republican who would supposedly unseat a president and send them to jail.
I think you’re completely correct
I still think Biden was the accelerationist choice, and i think its turned out to be true
I feel like there’s a word for it that I don’t know, but I think had that happened, Liberals would be forced to look themselves in the mirror and decide between their hatred for Trump and their love for Israel. I feel like it would have been a huge injury to the liberal psyche
Okay, but what if you vote in a state where the electoral college says you voted for the other guy?
Does that say least absolve you?
Trump winning (because progressives refuse to vote) isn’t going to stop the genocide. It will however make the situation 100 times worse at home.
Trump being bad for America is not the argument you think it is in these parts lol
Tbf I dont think their point is that itll be bad for America in general, but specifically for marginalized people. I dont agree that thats worth casting your principles asside, particularly when the principle is “genocide is bad”, but I wanted to clarify anyway.
During Trump liberals were posting black lives matter filters over their profile picture under Biden those same liberals are telling those same activists to shut up and stop complaining because they’re hurting bidens chance of re-election.
Tell that to the minorities in America who have a lot to fear for if the Republicans come to power again.
This argument makes more sense if you can point to concrete things Democrats are doing or have done at the federal level to protect those people, but there isn’t anything. Voting for people who will provide lip service but no actual effort isn’t really helping people.
Things haven’t changed though. They still have concentration camps for refugees at the border, they’re building the wall, policing gets full throated support, Roe v Wade is dead, states haven’t even had an ounce of punishment for their terrible anti-trans and anti-abortion laws, war continues, tensions continue to build with China.
Is project 2025 scary, yes. But Biden hasn’t done shit to actually help trans people. Some messaging of support doesn’t stop the trans kids from getting brutalized by a state senate. Someone here mentioned it a while ago but the real difference between Trump and Biden is Trump is driving at the cliff with the pedal to the metal, Biden is driving the speed limit towards the same cliff. I’m absolutely sick and tired of people basically threatening minority groups saying “you better vote for us or look what that guy’ll do to ya”
Yeah, they might repeal Roe v Wade or cancel student loan forgiveness or cancel all COVID relief or pass anti trans laws in multiple states or put kids in cages. Can you imagine???
I know you know republicans did the repealing of Roe v Wade and state level restrictions of abortion rights.
I know you know Democrats have done absolutely nothing about it
Sounds like presidential election doesn’t actually matter that much then so you should all stop moaning about it nonstop, and get to work on finding the actual leverage into power (it’s labor power and mass work stoppages)
Okay, so trump is scary because he could use executive powers to ruin things right? What about Biden not using executive powers to protect things?
He had years to put out protections and take steps to mitigate the damage of the Supreme Court.
The fact that he didn’t use the powers at his disposal to protect Roe v Wade, as one of the most powerful people in the world, is damning.
Biden not trying to protect Roe v Wade as the sitting US president is tantamount to endorsing the overturn of Roe v Wade.
democrats had four separate chances to codify Roe, going back to jimmy “east timor” carter. campaign obama promised to do it and then president obama turned around and said it wasn’t a priority. RBG could’ve resigned when obama had a senate majority, but she had such hubris and ego that she wanted to be replaced by hilary clinton. Biden didn’t even try to pack the court.
democrats ain’t shit and you’re a giant mark if you think they’ll actually help or protect you from what’s coming
I don’t expect shit from democrats but it’s actual factual that marginalized communities have a better time under democrat rule than republican
Dems are in power right now and what has that worthless, cowardly party done to protect Roe v Wade? Trans rights? Stopping mass incarceration? Ending the US Mexico border concentration camps? Socializing health care? Stopping fracking? Defunding the police? Defunding the military industrial complex?
Leaning on minorities to vote for a party that is incapable of wielding power against their enemies and oppressors is so intellectually dishonest that it makes me sick. Minorities in America will never get justice from a party of imperialist colonizers whose only selling point is they’re not as abhorrent as the other fascists.
Why should they? The Democrats are neoliberals, they are not your friend. They are not going to do anything for you.
The American two-party system is designed in such a way that as long as the Republicans are overtly evil, the Democrats get a free pass to do whatever they want so long as they do not cross that threshold.
It’s designed to punish voters who think they can opt out of the electoral system by not voting. Don’t want to vote? You get the worse choice of the two!
And what the people are advocating here (not voting Biden) is exactly the behavior that the system is designed to punish. It’s meant to demoralize and break your will until you are no longer capable of resisting. It’s designed for you to lose.
The only way out of this is to have a political movement that does not play by the rules of the electoral system. But since such a movement does not exist in America, the least you can do right now is to slow the erosion of minority rights.
It’s the choice between evil and a worse evil. Or rather, Build Back Fascism Better or Make Fascism Great Again. And you will have made your choice between the two even when you don’t vote.
The American two-party system is designed in such a way that as long as the Republicans are overtly evil, the Democrats get a free pass to do whatever they want so long as they do not cross that threshold.
Supporting genocide is overtly evil.
The least you can do right now is not assume the person you’re replying to even gets to vote for the President, because America decided that those of us who live in their territories are second class citizens whose votes shouldn’t count. An issue that neither party even pretends to care about. And, as people were saying elsewhere in the thread, you don’t get to have it both ways. Not voting IS distinct from making a choice. Voting for the dems despite their support for genocide just sends them a message of approval, that minorities are their little pet dogs who will stick by their side no matter what.
You forgot the depriving people with felony convictions from voting even after their release.
If you vote for someone who is an active helper and participant of an ongoing genocide you become an accomplice
I’m trans. They’ve been very vocal about coming for me as soon as they get the chance.
That’s inevitable though! As long as the Republican Party is allowed to exist and recruit more fascists this isn’t going to change. Eventually they’ll win and try to put me in a camp. Better that happens under a polarizing dumbass like Trump than a smart fascist.
And let’s not forget ticket splitting. What is going to happen if Trump wins the Whitehouse and loses the Senate and House? Chaos.
What is going to happen if Trump wins the Whitehouse and loses the Senate and House? Chaos.
And I think this is whats going to happen based on the results in the last two elections. Dems are doing well broadly, but Biden is personally unpopular. So I think he loses the presidency, but the Dems win congressionally.
Its interesting that @Kaplya@hexbear.net couches their guilt about being an active genocide supporter in retoric about “protecting minorities”. But when those same minorities explain exactly how that doesn’t actually protect them they give no response.
Democrats are equally as terrible and I won’t hear your retort otherwise because it will be libshit
Who built the camps?
Biden has Trump beat on deportations and police funding
I mean, trans genocide is happening right now at the state level under Biden and he and the national-level party haven’t done shit about it
Trump winning (because progressives refuse to vote)
Gotta love how liberals portray progressives as simultaneously a large enough voting bloc to sway entire elections, but not large enough to ever enact a single progressive policy even when it’s a campaign promise.
The Enemy is Strong and Weak, they say? Where have I heard that before
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It sounds like Biden and the Democratic party are the ones who should be working harder to court votes. You know, they’re the ones in power right now.
Trumps not gonna win because progressives refuse to vote he’s going tow in because Biden is trying to win as a Democrat while pissing off anybody that cares about unions or not committing genocides and luterally explicitly told young people he does not care about the problems they face.
It may stop the arming of fascists in Ukraine however, and end that senseless NATO proxy way
The dems are presiding over both a trans genocide and a palestinian genocide and this loser thinks voting for them makes things “better”.
The kids are still in cages lest everyone forget. Seems like the whole fucking country has
Don’t worry about it. It will be hot button issue #1 once Trump takes office again.
Don’t forget presiding over the stripping away of abortion rights, funding and arming Nazis in Ukraine and Israel, escalating world war on multiple fronts. Biden is the worst president of my lifetime
I think Bush was still worse.
Biden still has time to overtake him.
True, but i don’t know if genocide Joe can meet that high bar. Like Bush inaugurated a global murder and torture campaign, the destruction of two countries that either directly or indirectly caused mass death, among so much other stuff. I guess I feel like we always need to remember how ghastly the empire has been in the past.
bush is by far the worst modern president and it’s not close. anyone who says trump is worse is sleeping in a tent full of
and thinks “american” is how you spell “person”.I think Nixon was worse than W (worse in terms of like, evil acts) but we’re talking 50 years ago so maybe not “modern” anymore.
Reagan
you vote for biden because he is the lesser evil, i vote biden because he needs more time to become the top1 worst president of all time, we are not the same.
Don’t forget the inherent gendercide in the new anti-abortion standard that they refuse to lift a finger against
What’s the standard?
The venn diagram of people who say this and the people who will tell you that “America” is a democracy and that China is a dictatorship of brainwashed Chinese factory workers is a circle.
Libs have no idea what “America” is, just that it has to be protected because the alternative is self reflection.
they are the same who see america being a racist shithole and proclaim “this isnt us!”
“I can excuse genocide but I draw the line at not voting!”
Isn’t Shaun a Br*tish person? Skullboy can’t even vote in the election they’re mad about. Why are people so obsessed about genocide Joe that they want to convince people in other countries that they should vote for him if they were allowed to do so hypothetically?
They’re actually mad at him BECAUSE He’s a British person saying this, because he’s “influencing an election he wont feel the effects of” or whatever.
Siri, how many countries have a US military base?
The UK has 13 US military bases
One for each original colony
lmao imagine thinking Air Strip One (1984 isn’t great to reference, but the idea behind that name is pretty spot on) won’t feel the effects of their master’s election.
Counterpoint: American Empire’s actions do not actually depend on elections.
Each and every country is entitled on an opinion on US politics since 2/3rds of the world is basically an US colony/military base, and the other 1/3rd is threatened by them on the daily
this libshit being conveyed through a nazitoss comic really is the cherry on top
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Not voting is a vote for Trump, but according to Republicans not voting is a vote for Biden. So they cancel each other out to net 0 difference. Math
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Sure, if we are making electoral discussions in the US essentially we arguing how many angels can dance on a pinhead. The least they could do is keep their angel-logic internally consistent though
Every result has a 50% chance of happening. It either happens or it doesn’t
This line of thought is logical for libs, because they do not understand that one votes for a candidate, rather they think one votes against a candidate. I used that lib logic about not voting to do a bit recently, feel free to steal it
it’s not a vote for Trump because I don’t owe the democrats a vote
To be fair, its based on who you would’ve voted for if you had voted. The message is for people who would’ve voted democrat. What they ignore is this acknowledges that democrats need to play to their base, which they dont do. Democrats always play to the non-existant center and rely on chastizing their left wing to get their votes. If a democrat actually played to the center of their own party they be wildly left wing in US terms.
You have two options:
-vote for the person who will stab you
-vote for the person who won’t pull the knife out
More like:
-vote for the person who already stabbed you
-vote for the person who said he’d pull the knife out but still hasn’t (edit: and is actively stabbing someone else)
Vote for the person who promises to do a big structural medical intervention but then stabs you and says that a scenario without you getting stabbed is idealist
To be fair, that person that they’re now actively stabbing is much more weak and defenseless wait that doesn’t help their case
But they tried to stab their neighbor* and even managed to get a scratch in!
*who has been stabbing them repeatedly for 75 years
they dont even admit the knife is there!
These people are pathetic
It’s too bad Biden was busy somewhere else when Roe v Wade got overturned.
The logic of “its an endorsement of Trump to not vote for anyone but its not an endorsement of Biden to vote for Biden because trolley problem” is absolutely fucking omniverse brain ass logic. Incredible.
And thats from someone who for a long time did see American electoral politics as basically a trolley problem. So I can totally understand how someone like that chooses to vote for Biden and doesnt see it as an endorsement of everything he does. What I cant understand is how they see it as an endorsement of Trump to NOT VOTE AT ALL (or vote third party).
They would be thrilled if a former trump supporter said they weren’t going to vote. They’d be called brave and heroic.
But a leftist not voting for Biden is doing worse how? Me not voting for Biden does the same thing as a chud not voting for trump. It’s the same as every other person who does not or cannot vote. But I’m somehow morally worse?
I think part of it is wanting chuds to like them as part of some weird need for approval from a patriarchal system (I will write a post about this if you ask) but another part is this belief that conservatives don’t know any better. So these folks get to smugly patronize chuds and scold anyone to their left.
It’s the same as every other person who does not or cannot vote. But I’m somehow morally worse?
Because to them you being on the left means your vote should default to Democrats, so voting (or not voting) otherwise is an active choice compared to the passive “default” of voting Dem.
You would think if these people really cared about non-voters they would stop wasting their energy scolding leftists and try talking to people who might he receptive to their brand of Fascism. Log off and go talk to people IRL!
American electoral politics is very well understood as a trolley problem though.
You’re tied to the tracks. You can switch a lever with your foot. The lever determines whether you are run over by a red or blue trolley.
Thank you for encapsulating the priority of aesthetics in US politics.
They’re literally doing the meme
Except it’s people hyperbolically interpreting Shaun telling people to stick to their principles as endorsing voting for Trump
They already struck down Roe v Wade, and Biden has made it clear he’s not willing to do anything to negate that that would take affect in his lifetime so I’m not sure what rights they think Biden is guarding.
Yeah but he said he’ll REALLY be a leftist in his second term
“He promised, this project at work is really stressful, but once it’s finished he’s going to stop drinking, really.”
What good is voting for “the lesser of two evils” if literally both fucking options results in genocide?
“We’ll at least postpone it longer with Democrats, maybe we’ll figure something better out in the meantime”
Even this tepid defense isn’t really working anymore.
usians are the most propagandized people on earth
they heard he supports the irish republicans and got confused, surely
I just don’t get them. Yeah, throw your ballot in for the genocidal monsters. Then do nothing, or maybe write some letters that the congressional aides have spam filters set up for.
: p
