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Well yeah but you have those long wait times to deal with right?
Here in America, I only had to wait 4 weeks for a video conference (in-person would have been 6 weeks) with my primary care physician so she could recommend me to a specialist that doesn’t have any openings until mid-August. Thank goodness I live in the land of the free where I only have to wait 3 months to see a doctor who has about a 20% chance to cancel on me last minute due to a “scheduling issues” and leave me hanging for another 4-8 weeks.
AND I get to pay for some of it out of pocket despite paying monthly for better than average medical insurance!
USA #1
It seems like our socialized healthcare doesn’t cover our sarcasm detector organ 😅
Canada here… yes wait times are a bitch
But it must be clarified this is not a result of socialized medicine… this is mostly a result of Politicians (largely Conservatives) starving the system as hard as they can just to justify Private Medicine as the only solution.
Just to be clear, you should have read my post in the most sarcastic voice you are capable of. I don’t think 3 months is an acceptable amount of time to have to wait for a doctor’s appointment and I think it’s absolutely insane that I have to pay as much as I do for insurance and still have to pay something out of pocket for the visit. The only thing keeping me in this country is my partner’s fear of starting over in an unfamiliar place.
Can you give us a break down? How are politicians slowing down the speed of intakes - wait times?
I’m going to assume (against common sense, this is an honest question)…
Most recent example
Less money = less staff, less maintenance, less services => more people with no choice but to go to Emerg, hospitals that work putting out fires all the time with less staff to go by… long term, it also causes people NOT too go into health care as a profession
They are literally planning to shrink hospital capacity
That’s… effed up. I mean that is a stupid fkin move. I never heard of shrinking hospital capacity, at least not in the sense of staff.
You say this as though wait times aren’t a problem in America, but they are. Funnily enough, it’s one of the main arguments people use against socialized medicine. It is consistently the most disappointing thing ever; that people refuse to lift themselves out of their shit filled pools.
U.S. wait times aren’t bad? When I tore my biceps, I was able to get x-rayed 1 hour after coming to the hospital, then got my surgery 4 days later.
That’s emergency care. No one is waiting 3+ months for someone to set their broken leg.
Meanwhile, I’m dealing with what is likely some variety of IBD by getting up 3 hours early for work so that I can completely empty my bowels before my shift starts and I’ll have to keep doing that for 7 more weeks until I even get to see a GI doctor.
Well the average is around 20-26 days. It can depend on the hospital and also the treatment. Sounds like you’re set up good, some people aren’t and you should advocate for them.
I’ve opted to wait a year to change insurance companies so I could resume seeing my old doc instead of starting the process as a new patient under someone else, because honestly I’d be seen at a comparative time.
Oh yeah I tried to schedule an intake appointment with an allergist in early March and their earliest available was mid July lol
Edit: Grammar again lol
don’t forget that if you live more than an hour away from a major metropolitan area, then you’re not getting care from an actual MD, but a NP or PA who just got their “degree” from bob’s discount medical credentials 10 minutes ago
If you want to argue there are bad NP and PA programs that’s fine. But on the whole NPs and PAs are graduate level jobs with strict certification tests. And honestly? We extremely over train doctors to just look at cuts, bruises, and stomach aches all day. For 11 to 15 years education they should be running the place and tracking down the hard cases.
For me the most annoying thing about it is when you specifically make an appointment with the doctor and they change it to the midlevel without telling you. For certain things it can be a bit distressing (for me) to have a random stranger come in to do.
Yeah that’s not good. They shouldn’t pull a bait and switch like that.
I’m forty-five minutes outside a medium sized pair of cities known for a decent state university, and glad to run into town for care as needed.
Landed in the hospital three months ago with something that got me a follow-up scheduled with neuro, in the practice associated with the hospital.
Three months to the day later, I’ve only just had the suggested test and the visit is still a month out…. With an NP. Not the MD who saw me in the hospital.
Honestly, at this point, I’m only keeping after that issue because I need their clearance to get surgery for my actual, pressing, immediate, and painful concern.
A big part of the wait times is because of the healthcare coverage IMO.
In the USA, if you have a non-life threatening issue, that is more annoying than an actual problem, it usually gets ignored because nobody wants to go into debt for that… Unless you’re a millionaire or something, I guess.
Meanwhile in countries with socialized healthcare, if you’re even slightly unwell (and even in cases where you’re not unwell) you can get any number of procedures done to rule out any possible illness.
There’s simply no good reason to not get checked out if you feel the need to be checked out.
Just to be clear, the point of my post was that I pay for insurance, pay for the visit, and I still have to wait 3 months to see a specialist. I’ll then need to wait weeks or months for an appointment for any sort of procedure or scan.
I live in a place with socialized healthcare (Canada), and did a sleep study, which didn’t cost me anything, in January… In about two weeks from now, I sit down with a doctor to review their findings.
The sleep study is very much a non-emergency. I did it because my lady has complained about the noise I make when I sleep, I also frequently get bad sleep for one reason or another.
It’s non-critical, and I’ve spent more than six months waiting for results.
Bluntly, I’d rather wait longer than pay more. I know anything important/life threatening would be completed same-day, and I’ve had that experience too. Though, at the time, I wasn’t really in a life threatening situation.
That’s totally reasonable.
We have the option to go private too. My brother had his NHS appointment delayed due to doctors’ strikes so he went private and got his operation done very quickly.
Because he had insurance already it only cost him about £150.
Also, having the NHS as a direct competitor drives down the price, much like social housing did to house prices.
Its why certain types hate those two things.
Here in the States, the only non-private option is through the Veterans’ Administration, which requires that one be a veteran or their direct family. It’s also intentionally bad, overly bureaucratic, and extremely inconvenient (had to drive 40min outside of the state capital to get my then-housemate to a veterans’ hospital once because he, a disabled veteran, couldn’t afford care anywhere else), embodying the right-wing hatred of actually compensating veterans. In fact, right-wing administrations have been caught instructing officials to attempt to avoid providing veterans with their contractually-entitled care and benefits.
Those of us who are not veterans are stuck with the private US system when terrible wait times.
Always a fun time when you have to beg the ambulance crew to drive you to the VA instead of the closest hospital because it’s the only way the VA will cover your ambulance ride. Despite Congress telling them they need to pay for them three times. They even passed a law and the VA immediately ignored it.
Then God help you if they decide your emergency wasn’t actually an emergency. Because on top of all the other problems, a surprise medical bill was just what you needed.
Most provincial governments in Canada are too trying to choke off social medicine (i.e. Canadian health care system) so corporates can come in and do a “better job”. Conservatives are pretty blatant about it.
Similar here in the UK. Its like, yeah, even if the model you’re proposing was better (it isnt), you can tell for a fact that its for the benefit of the wealthy and at the expense of the 99%, simply by whos saying it.
I mean, its like taking parental advice from a convicted paedophile. In the same way, why would anyone take advice on socialised medicine from someone you know is trying to fuck your socialised healthcare system.
Yep. Alberta is currently breaking up Alberta Health Services in a clear “Divide & Conquer” attempt.
I guess another warning is to keep your eye on public education too
And utilities and transport and prisons, no public responsibility should have private interests in control.
Hopefully Labour will do something revitalise my NHS which has been absolutely raped by the greedy criminals current in charge.
Canadian voters do a good job at supporting conservatives.
I mean, Alberta is. I don’t really feel that in BC. Not sure about other provinces.
It’s really bad in Ontario. Wait times are regularly hitting ~20 hours in our emergencies and it’s near impossible to get a family doctor.
edit: but at least we’ll have beer in corner stores next year! 🙃
Buck a beer changed my life. Thank you Ford voters. /S
And to imagine, people in QC sometimes drive to ON for emergency care because our wait times are even longer.
Bless the BCNDP. I disagree with them on various issues but kneecapping our healthcare system is not something I’m worried they’ll attempt.
Meanwhile, here in the states, thanks to financial help from my mother, the over $10,000 in medical debt we’ve racked up over the past year is less than $10,000!
I hit my maximum out of pocket for the year.
Our system is so fucked up I’m actively wanting all the major medical issues coming over the next decade to hit all at once right now.
I watched Hank Green’s stand up today and he let out the secret to cancer in the US. It’s the one thing the health insurance industry doesn’t want you to know! Just make sure to get your cancer at the start of the year so you can max that deductible and get free healthcare the rest of the year!
You joke but…
I was in a benefits meeting a few years ago led by the insurance rep for our employee health coverage.
Deductibles came up.
I raised my hand and asked, “So if I go skiing for Christmas and snap my femur on December 26, it behooves me to delay any treatment until January 1, right?”
She didn’t miss a beat and said, “Yes, that’s correct.”
There was a stunned silence in the room from that one.
Yup. National coping humor. But there’s nothing wrong with the US, really! I swear!
Free healthcare
When I got married, the US medical system gave me a wedding present of about $2k in medical debt for my wife’s sprained ankle. Was a great way to help newlyweds not afford to keep the (rental) house heated during the following PNW Fall/Winter.
Happened to my 12 year old a couple of months ago. Our hospital bill was the equivalent of ~15$. My dad went through a year of cancer treatment a little over a decade ago. His hospital bill was a jaw dropping ~15$ equivalent as well.
It keeps the hypochondriacs from wasting resources.
My dad had a cardiac arrest a few years ago. Resuscitation, ambulance, two hospitals, a week in a coma, another week recovering.
I think the biggest expense was putting their cat in the cattery for a week.
Come to think of it, my kids were all born at large hospitals in large cities. The biggest expense for all of them was parking.
He was lucky enough to have it in the middle of Covid, so all the parking was free. Probably not the best idea to have everybody pawing at the same parking meter in the middle of a pandemic at a hospital. Hard enough to get people wearing masks, let alone washing their hands as well.
It keeps the hypochondriacs from wasting resources.
Are you sure? If I was a hypochondriac, the $60/mo “Medical doctor confirms you’re fine every Wednesday” plan sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Cue Americans angry that other countries don’t force their citizens into bankruptcy for getting sick in 3… 2…
Nah, I just get annoyed when people rub their free healthcare that we already know about in our faces. Especially on a site like this where most everyone agrees that the US healthcare system is trash.
We rub it in until you finally do something about it. Dont act like the majority of americans knows their system is trash when you still have half of the voters voting for a party that wants to make it even worse.
Yeah I agree. Things have to get bad enough for us to want to discuss politics with our crazy family members. Many will choose war instead.
The relatively small population of Lemmy makes these kinds of posts feel even more like a circlejerk than on other social media.
The odds of reaching someone who hasn’t heard this beaten to death are so slim.
We feel do completely overshadowed by American sports and culture that we take what few victories we have and run with them.
Trade you baseball and basketball for your healthcare…
Trade you Putin for baseball and basketball. Or for anything else, just take Putin.
I’d trade all of our sports and reality TV for it
Overshadowed by American sports? Culture, yeah - but sports?
What makes me really sad as a non american is that a lot of research and medical progress comes from america, financed by medically bankrupt americans and the rest of the world gets to enjoy it for free. I had an ex that had a brain tumor and there was a experimental american drug that used to cost thousands of dolars a dose. They sue the government for it and got them to pay for the entire treatment. 10 doses 100% paied for by our public health care.
Even more sad? My dog had diabetis and the public vet clinic would give us insulin and needles for the whole month for free.
a lot of research and medical progress comes from america, financed by medically bankrupt americans
The real beneficial research is financed by taxpayers. The medically bankrupt finance the obscene profits of health care corporations and pharmaceutical companies, who do not spend much at all on primary research. The “research” they invest in is how to productize and market drugs.
even worst :( I’m sorry
The real beneficial research is financed by taxpayers.
As expected. Privatization of assets and nationalization of expenses.
So that’s what civilization is like…
It’s not free, it’s paid from taxes. Money that’s not spent on bombs and such.
Different priorities, I guess. 🤷
It’s free as in freedom
Yeah that’s totally something that would happen on Lemmy. /S
Such a reddity comment.
Good too see that guy kicking around. If he’s the one I’m thinking of, he ended up going to Ukraine at the start of the war to help out. Ended up along the border I think offering to help give first aid and be a gopher essentially
Just don’t look at the timestamp…
35 minutes ago
Well, not free…. Taxes and all that. But free at the time of service, sure.
E: not sure what triggered the downvote train. Nothing I said is untrue. It’s not free, it’s paid for with taxes. It’s not a dig against socialized care, I’d much prefer to have that vs the financial disaster that US healthcare is.
And yet somehow, they end up paying less for health care than Americans do…
Everybody is paying less then Americans do.
I’d rather my taxes be used for that rather than bailing out banks…
And the horrendously corrupt and unnecessarily extra military complex.
Not free I agree but I prefer getting taxed a lot and have those services rather than not.
The way I see it, if we tax for example fuel, well the price of fuel rises for the customers, so customers buy less fuel, then fuel companies lower the price so their stuff gets bought and now your fuel is around the same price as before, but you have free healthcare.
Yeah, you are right. In Germany we pay pay around 15% of our montlhy income for it. I too would not want to trade it in any way, but yeah, you pay for it.
It’s free as in freedom
Well Americans also pay for medical expenses in taxes as well as at time of service, we get double charged.
At first I read it as “y’all Mexicans” and was a lil confused
Mexicans do public health care tho
Yeah, it’s spelled “Muricans”.
imgur. now that’s a place I haven’t visted in a long time… a long time…
remember that time canadian socialized medicine told a vet in a wheelchair that it would take too long to get the help she needs so wouldn’t it be better if she just euthanized herself?
there’s pros and cons to every system
edit: just to be clear, i agree nobody should have some insane medical debt from a broken arm. in american when i broke my arm i went to a private doctor and paid a couple hundred bucks. it was fine, not in the poor house over it.
That doesn’t sound like a problem with socialized medicine, so much as a problem with Canada’s socialized healthcare system.
Like I’m pretty sure their right wing has been doing everything they can to dismantle their healthcare system. That’s definitely going to reduce the speed and quality of care.
Not even that. It is a problem witj one individual who made a dumb comment.
So the problem is that we know about it? Because you know that happens everyday silently with the homeless in America. You just don’t have to hear about it.
Socialized healthcare is infinitely better. It’s not perfect. Nothing’s perfect.
As opposed to not say anything and quietly watching them die?
My wife works in the American Hospital system. Had a old homeless guy come into the ER because his foot didn’t exist anymore, and they gave him some pills and kicked him back into the street.
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It wasn’t “free” - you paid for it in taxes
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How are those wait lists going for you, which are currently being debated by your MPs?
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It’s funny how y’all are shouting about this to Americans. Do you really think they aren’t aware you have socialized medicine?
I’ve received in-patient care, overnight studies, emergency procedures, and much more in Spain without ever paying a dollar in copays or fees, and I’ve never waited more than 2 weeks for non-urgent care or an hour for urgent care.
My taxes are $600/month total in Madrid. Given that I have epilepsy, my insurance alone in the US was $490/month, AND I paid more in taxes ($1100/month).
So, yes, universal healthcare isn’t “free,” and it’s supported by taxes. And still, Americans are taxed more AND have to pay for insurance? And then you still have to pay copays? I don’t think “dur dur me taxes!” is actually the strong argument you think it is. And wait times are no longer (or in fact are shorter) in many countries with universal healthcare. But you know what’s longer? Life expectancies.
American here.
Just checked my latest paystub. My taxes are $405 per WEEK.
Good to know I’m getting such a bang for my buck.
And by bang, the military just got a few more bullets for war out of me.
USA(pays taxes: still shit healthcare
USA(can’t make appointment for fear of bankruptcy): “hey, how are those wait lists?🤣🤣🤣”
USA(millions unable to get proper healthcare): “why do you taunt us with proper healthcare???”
It’s true, I have been on a very long waiting list for an endocrinologist. Of course, I’m in America, so that doesn’t help your argument.
- A few years ago a study was done and it determined the worst case scenario for an individual (or family) implementing a Single Payer Healthcare system in the US was that an individual or families tax bill would go up about 1800/yr. No copays or deductibles.
Rn, I’m at the better end with an employer provided plan and I pay 300/month which is 3600/yr not even factoring in copays, deductibles, prescriptions etc etc. it’s already DOUBLE than just paying it in taxes.
But no, clearly private businesses are way better in your healthcare am I right?
- Europeans seem to have better “wait lists” than us right now.
Keep on parroting those right wing talking points though!
It would also get rid of all the “in network” and “out of network” bullshit right? that might help with wait times too if you don’t have to rely on one of the 3 guys that takes your insurance.
I pay around 600 for myself and my wife, and that’s with my employer continuing to pick up a significant share of the cost of health insurance that I literally never see a deduction or bill for.
1,800 a year beats hell out of $7,200, a $5k deductible, 20% co ins, and $11k OOP max.
It’s a system that allows 100% of the population to seek aid. Whereas the American system explicitly pushes disincentive via cost.
Claim greatness again when all of us can seek medical care without debt.
Pushes early and more treatable health concerns into later, less treatable, and more expensive concerns.
For profit healthcare operates even against its own interests.
An interesting argument you could make against our healthcare is that we all pay for unhealthy habits like smoking/drinking. The solution is that we tax the fuck out of those things and make them prohibitively expensive.
So idk. If you’re anti socialized healthcare, I’d recommend you talk about how booze and cigarettes will get more expensive. The wait list bullshit is laughable when compared to going balls deep in to debt if you or your family ever get sick.
Someone hit a nerve?
Hope it doesn’t require health care!
Here in Murica, with insurance, if you need a surgery for a knee or hip replacement, news flash, the doctor usually schedules your surgery for several weeks to months out. Almost no American will be diagnosed as needing a knee replacement, and have said knee replacement that day or that week.
Herp derp wAiT LiSTs!!!111 right here in the US.
Defending our gold plated shithole country, especially with false talking points, doesn’t help you or this gold plated shithole country.
Honestly I hear a lot of this complained about in Canada to try and make a Privatized system seem more reasonable…
And seriously it’s grass is greener nonsense. I have American friends with joint issues. They may got their care maybe like two months faster than I did… And some of them are still paying it down five years later. I can afford to hobble for a little longer if it means the bank doesn’t own my soul.
you paid for it in taxes
you get the privilege of paying higher taxes (for less coverage) and paying higher out-of-pocket fees
I don’t understand the long wait list complaint. If I tried to see my Dr I would have to wait months. I routinely hear of people waiting over a year for specialists. In fact, my wife was scheduled to be medically induced for pregnancy due to health reasons and we had to wait day of because they were understaffed! We have to wait and we have to pay!
- It wasn’t “free” - you paid for it in taxes
And gladly. That is an excellent use of my tax dollars. It tends to keep people healthy, without going broke.
- How are those wait lists going for you, which are currently being debated by your MPs?
For my current health needs, I have no complaints about wait lists.
- It’s funny how y’all are shouting about this to Americans. Do you really think they aren’t aware you have socialized medicine?
If Americans knew about socialized medicine, they’d have it, since it is less expensive than private healthcare, and leads to better outcomes.
You wouldn’t believe how much more Americans already pay in taxes for healthcare than other countries and then having to pay insurance on top of that.
Insurance has allowed the healthcare industry to balloon costs beyond any reasonable limit. Allowing the government to dictate prices instead can only help drive cost of medical care down and make the situation much more affordable for all, even factoring in what we pay now in both taxes and insurance.
Price ceilings cause shortages. It makes more sense for the government to just run it directly.
My dad had to wait 6 months just to get an appointment for a doctor to recommend ankle surgery surgery which took place another 6 months later. So we have wait times just as bad as any other country.
Here’s the funny thing: you pay less for socialized medicine over insurance premiums and co pays lmao
This is the most basic fact that people in the US need to be made aware of: we spend literally twice as much per person on healthcare as the rest of the developed world. Twice as fucking much!
Sure, but isn’t the principle more important to Americans that your tax money should not be used to help others? Paying a premium to privatized health care doesn’t matter too much, they’re already rich. Having immigrants, homeless, sick people etc be beneficiaries would be “unfair”.
As an American, fuck our Healthcare system up the ass with a rusty machete
Lucky you haven’t had to work the labyrinth of getting a prescription approved. In my experience it can take months do get medical care for some conditions.
I can make an appointment with my doctor within 24/h, even faster in an emergency. And I pay 5€ for a visit.
A gastroscope appointment, also not an emergency, took less than a week. And it cost me 30€.
Belgium btw.
The reason we keep reminding you guys is because of people like you.
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Divide them into the ones thinking poor people also deserve to be healthy and…?
