The car ofc 😂. Air conditioned, my own music, private space, no waiting for a table, no listening to other conversations. But this is a stupid comparison altogether. I wouldn’t go to the drive thru for a social coffee and I wouldn’t go to the cafe for a quick coffee.
This, 35 Celsius grades and beyond are no joke.
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Most of the people in this thread have evidently never been to a café. They are describing it like some hellish experience, which to be fair in America it probably is
I think most of the people here probably haven’t. I myself have only been once.
The issue with this comparison is the cultural differences. Like in America that bottom image would be basically impossible to get in and out of on the way to work. Whereas Starbs or Dunkin is like a 5 minute pit stop tops
Again, wrong. In Italy or France it’s perfectly normal to pop into a cafe for a quick coffee on the way to work.
Okay?..I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here. In America people generally don’t do that… Which is a cultural difference… How is that wrong? Lol
@Goblin_Mode @Diplomjodler Is it a cultural difference, or has the US lacking infrastructure forced you to make a different choice?
I would argue lacking appropriate infrastructure to support a walking city is a cultural thing. Americans like their cars man.
I personally would love to see some more public transportation and walkable cities but I know enough “car guys” to confidently say that a substantial percentage of Americans prefer it like this. I think it’s shifting away with each generation but we aren’t anywhere near Europe yet
@Goblin_Mode But why do they like their cars? It’s not spontaneous. It’s because the automotive industry lobbied to destroy any other transportation option, so they need to have a car to survive. Obviously you’ll like the thing that helps you survive. It’s not that they like their cars, so they built their life around it. It’s that their lives are built around them, so they don’t have any other option but to like cars.
I don’t like waiting in my car, but I fucking hate packed restaurants/cafes where I have to scoot my chair in extra tight so people don’t keep having to rub their junk on me every time they squeeze behind me.
I choose option 3: make my coffee/tea at home because I’m poor asf.
so people don’t keep having to rub their junk on me
I agree with GiantFloppyCock.
Is there a sublemmy for rimjob Steve yet?
Be the change you want to see
- Rimjob Steve
I wouldn’t have noticed without this comment. Love it.
I’m on option 3 because no coffee/tea is worth the wasted time and resources of leaving my house early (even if I had to commute) to wait in line for it. This is just terminally stupid to me and I am unable to understand why anyone does it as part of their daily routine.
yeah I just make some black coffée when I get to work, maybe add a sugar packet if I feel zesty
Well, if you weren’t poor, you could just go and sit in half empty cafe where trey charge €10+ per cup.
I hate getting bumped, but for me it’s the noise. Can’t stand a crowded space with many conversations.
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What a ridiculous comment. Maybe they already have been. Maybe they can’t afford it. Maybe they don’t even have autism. A diagnosis isn’t some magic cure for sensitivity to noisy crowds anyway, so it’s not a helpful suggestion even if all your assumptions were true.
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so people don’t keep having to rub their junk on me
Same, bro. Now where is this coffee place, so I know where not to go? 📜✍🥸
High five for practical frugality. I’m with you there.
I don’t think the problem with cars is that they aren’t comfortable. Unfortunately they are too comfortable. You get to sit in an air conditioned box with leather seats, no external noise while listening to an audiobook. Then your coffee just shows up.
lol I always think that when cars don’t want to stop for me walking. Like bro chill you’re sitting in a literal recliner rn
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The people lining up, instead of parking and taking 5 mins to go inside, are terminally stupid. I encountered this the other day, and I was out the door with my coffee before the line had even moved.
Wasn’t that a covid thing?
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It’s a catch-22 though. Like, if I get out of my car for 5 minutes with it off then it just heats up to 1000 degrees. I get that the idea of quickly going in and walking out is nice, and I would honestly prefer to not have it at all (yay for just making coffee at home). However for us in incredibly hot climates it isn’t something I ever try to do. It’s 107 out today, 5 minutes with my car off turns it into like 135 on the inside. Of course all of this just adds more to emissions. Which is all of the problem….
Electric cars, if you’re going to have a car, do help with this. You just leave the air conditioning on.
Ah yes, my partner and I with our combined 40k income should forsake a quick coffee now and then until we can spend at minimum half a year’s salary on an electric that we have no means to charge except at a target 15 minutes away.
I 1000% agree that waiting in a line like this while idling is insane, but instead of shifting responsability to people who can barely afford to survive, how about we shift that attention into laws and infrastructure that penalize this behavior by corporations.
Many of us have to drive 20-30 minutes just to buy groceries, let alone work. Where I live, it hasn’t been below 37° at 11am since March. Cars, and cheap old ones that annoyingly guzzle gas, are a necessity for us.
Of course all of this just adds more to emissions. Which is all of the problem….
^^ from above
how about we shift that attention into laws and infrastructure that penalize this behavior by corporations
Completely agree, this is what we should be focusing on. YOUR CAR isn’t doing shit. ALL OF OUR CARS collectively are doing shit. You can change your behavior and feel better about yourself, but this problem was caused by laws, oil money lobbying, and the resulting policy. Laws and policy are the way out of it, not making people feel bad about their “choices.”
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I know, but I see it all the time. When people continually “carbon shame” or “car shame” people without any concern for the actual individuals whom they are asking to sacrifice even more, it gets exhausting.
My dad was an environmental consultant. Growing up we knew about erosion control, smog statutes, chemical dumping, and carbon credits from an extremely young age. I have been an activist for climate control and carbon responsability my whole life. Hell at 9 years old I was cold calling trash companies in my county to setup more public recycling bins (it worked).
However, people like the commenter above have forgotten that climate change and emissions regulations are just as much a class issue as anything else.
7.14% of global emissions come from passenger motor vehicles. That’s terrible, and we should be doing everything we can to raise the availability of cleaner fuels and cheaper low-mileage vehicles. But, 35% of global emissions come from commercial energy use and direct carbon production. The problem is not Jim-Bob in his F-350 (though that’s an entire other issue that should be regulated). The problem is Eric Moneybags and his 15 million dollars of carbon credits who gets to ignore EPA regulations because he has deeper pockets.
Global Warmingis a class issue. Its causes are a class issue, and its effects will be felt along class lines. We need to start treating it like the problem it is.
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But, 35% of global emissions come from commercial energy use and direct carbon production. The problem is not Jim-Bob in his F-350 (though that’s an entire other issue that should be regulated). The problem is Eric Moneybags and his 15 million dollars of carbon credits who gets to ignore EPA regulations because he has deeper pockets.
The problem is things like the CAFE regulations that essentially subsidize Jim-Bob’s F-350 by exempting it from the same requirements that govern regular cars, and (from your previous comment) the zoning codes that prohibit density and literally displace you outside of walking distance from your grocery store and work.
Yeah that’s what sucks right now. It does kinda feel like your responding to something I didn’t say though :-/
I made another longer reply to someone who said something similar.
You’re absolutely right. It wasn’t entirely your fault. However, i do still feel that the class issues of climate control get ignored in these conversations, and it’s easy for people to look at a line of cars like this and blame the individual when, I promise you, many of those people don’t want to be there at all, but this might be their one thing a day, or even week, that makes getting out of bed worth it.
Climate change is a class issue, and it is a social issue. The people it affects the most (in a given population) should always be remembered in our discussions.
Note: Obviously my own comments come from a place of great privilege. Even more importantly we should remember how oir economies and laws are currently at the expense of the global south, and that they are likely going to be the first ones lost as the effects of our corporate and societal greed are felt even more strongly.
My car I bought recently has remote start. So I can turn it (and the AC) on right before I’m about to leave. A minute is enough for it to start blasting plenty of cold air.
Are you by any chance telling them to walk on their legs?
Yes because sitting in my car jamming to my music is soooooo stupid.
No, but twenty of you sitting in your idling cars is unbelievably stupid
Start/stop technology.
Many coffee and fast food restaurants around where I live closed down internal seating around covid and still haven’t opened the backup now due to staffing issues. Terminally stupid my ass.
Equally terminally stupid your ass, because you can make coffee at home during highly infectious outbreaks.
This was during Covid social distancing, probably right when Starbucks was allowed to open back up.
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All you car haters, I’d like to see you sitting outside, having a coffee, in Arizona during the summer where it is 56°C during most hours on a daily basis.
Shouldn’t have built a city in the middle of the fucking desert.
Don’t say that my dude, most of your computer chips are from there
You could still do the bottom picture inside.
Well, Arizona is not meant to be lived in. As well as Mars, for example.
I don’t believe that anyone from Arizona would use Celsius.
It’s the only way it’ll ever be 2 numbers again
There are lots of Canadians in Arizona!
I’m not
I respect base 10/metric, base 12/imperial is braindead, and think the US has a lower than average self awareness and introspection.
Metric (aka normal) is a worldwide standard. Inches and feet are not (really). Celsius is Kevin with an offset, which is why it makes more sense.
The picture on the bottom is from France. I bet they would still drink their coffee in +56 because they sit like that during winter under a bloody snowstorm.
You can dress up for winter. You cannot dress down for “fuck you” heat.
Apparently you can dress up for “fuck you” heat.
Making a “cooling” shirt black defeats the purpose.
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Those coffee shops have inside space too.
They way North America cities are designed it’s definitely not pleasant.
Nothing more enjoyable then a car traveling at 60kmh right beside your patio table.
[insert King of the Hill quote]
My car is probably more comfortable tbh. Especially if weather is bad.
Yeah, that headline asks the wrong question.
– I look at the bottom picture and see hard chairs, hot sun, bugs, and I don’t know if there are seats but some people are stuck standing.
– I look at the top picture and see nice cushy seats, my own music, and air conditioning.
Comfort is why people put up with these lines
If it was such an unpleasant experience, why are so many people there? Maybe the chairs are comfortable. Maybe there is a pleasant breeze, maybe the people standing are just passing by, and anyone who wanted to sit is doing so. If you don’t think an outdoor café can be a comfortable experience, you’ve obviously never been to one. I have my morning coffee at a place like this all the time and it’s lovely.
Probably can’t afford cars, or too many dui /s
They’re probably there because they got paid for the photo shoot.
Dude, this kind of thing is everywhere in Europe. It’s rare in the US, but it still exists in some places. People love being outside. Just because you’re always indoors doesn’t mean everyone likes that. I go to breweries often, and as long as it’s not incredibly hot or cold outdoor seating is the first thing taken.
The US has been constructed so this kind of thing doesn’t exist in most places, but where it does it’ll always be occupied.
It looks like a Google Street view shot to me
Because they specifically dont want takeout
Those seats look pretty nice, but if it were hot they would just be indoors. There’s several people in jackets and suit jackets, so I doubt it’s hot. It’s all shaded and probably a mild day. Personally, I love going to breweries, and I almost always choose to go places with outdoor seating and sit outside. It’s much nicer than sitting in a sealed box all the time to get outside and enjoy the environment when you can.
If I am to answer honestly, the car. But only because it’s like a little fortress of solitude and separates me from the public where I would otherwise be an anxious mess. But to be fair, you did only ask what looks more comfortable. I still don’t want cars to be the main mode of transportation.
First, I agree with everything you typed. BUT
Second, “a little fortress of solitude and separates me from the public” is kinda the problem we have that leads to the top part of the picture. We in the West in general and the United States in particular have lost our sense of community. My car by myself listening to what I want in solitude is AWESOME, but stopping to sit and be part of a community is probably better for me.
For me, I look at all those factors as coping with the fact that we are often alone in our cars and that they inherently create a sense of isolation from the outside world.
Yep. There’s a BIG difference between “I like driving” and “We should design all our towns and cities around driving.”
And the ironic thing is that designing around walking and public transportation makes driving better. You don’t have to deal with nearly as much stop & go traffic if there aren’t as many people on the road, and if arterial roads don’t need to have intersections every few hundred feet.
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Pic number one is definitely more comfortable. Because you don’t have to be around so many people. You have your own private environment. Listen to an audiobook, zone out, drink some coffee, sounds perfect.
I know you’re getting downvoted, but I agree. I have lost most of my tolerance for people in businesses at this point. Too many rude, inconsiderate jerks treating the staff poorly and acting like they own the place. I’m not saying sitting in your car waiting for it is good either, but compared to dealing with horrible people, I’ll take it.
Now, if you’re lucky, you’ll find a coffee shop with decent clientele. If you’re lucky.
Agreed. If pic two was a sleepy coffee shop with maybe one or two tables occupied. And you could get some personal space and read a book quietly. It would be superior. If you live in a transit oriented community, and everything’s walkable, you got a coffee shop right next to your house that you can go visit in the morning. Beautiful.
But that wasn’t the question, it was of the two which was more preferable.
The bottom cafe holds a lot more people comfortably.
So if both had the same amount of customers, the bottom one would be a hell of a lot less crowded.
Get ready to find out that there are countries where horrible customers are a rare occurrence
That’s great. As soon as you get me and my family jobs, a home and citizenship in one, I’ll change my tune.
Yeah thats unfortunately just a larger cultural problem
Maybe this whole car/big business environment contribute to the this.
Where I live I know the name or faces of most people who attend my local café, which is run by an old dude and his wife, I think this leads to a more friendlier place then let say, a big chain store with new staff every couple weeks who can’t care less about the place and also customers who sees the place as only somewhere where you go to buy stuff and leave.
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Yeah sounds like a fucking dream. When I’m depressed.
I’m socially anxious and don’t really like crowds so sitting in my car is preferable. But I’d park and walk in rather than wait in a line like that.
Really I work from home and get my own coffee every day without needing pants, which is infinitely preferable to both.
Some cars have by far the most comfortable seats I’ve ever sat in. Nissan in particular has some amazing seats. Far better than anything Herman Miller has ever put out. There’s a reason some dedicated people out there take seats out of cars and mount them on the rolly things.
That said I’m not going to idle my car for more than 5 minutes for just about anything. The people who wait 30 minutes in a drive thru line are insane.
I’m a fierce opponent of cars in inner cities and I want a revolution in individual transportation that makes us mostly move away from cars (and make cars much smaller for those who are reliant on it).
However I love driving although I hope I’ll never need a car ever again for climates sake. I’d definitely rather sit in my own isolated space.deleted by creator
I hope it’s higher than that. I don’t want to hike 3 miles to sit on a crowded sidewalk with randos under someone’s house to wait 20 minutes for 2 oz of espresso probably in a cloud of cigarette smoke.
I like a cafe, but it’s going to be way out of the way and no one waiting but me.
You guys only have a cafe every 3 miles?
Lol, we have some every couple of 100 meters. In my small neighborhood town, I know of at least 7.
It’s 43°C out here in Texas, so yes, but I would rather climate refugee my way into a nice place like the bottom picture because with the way things are going, soon 50°C is going to be the new norm out here (especially if we keep building photo one infrastructure) and 43° is already too hot. We also have lines like this for fried chicken. SNL even did a parody auto dealer commercial where the dealership is blocked off by the traffic in line for chicken.
I make my coffee at home. It’s cheaper.
So much time saved too. Takes less time to make it than it ever does to wait in line.
The silver lining is I can nip inside to the almost empty coffee shop and leave with my order before two cars have been served. No idea why these people would rather sit in their car for twenty minutes than walk for twenty seconds.
I wish this was true, I’ve tried it multiple times at Starbucks and it doesn’t work.
I think the majority of the staff is working on mobile/drive thru orders vs the orders that come in at the counter.
Regardless, going inside has taken me longer then joining that stupid line.
No idea. I served in drive throughs and I can tell you waiting time is shorter inside the store
Waiting time is shorter and I don’t have to keep idling the car ( or turning it off and on again) before I can order.
I’m used to running inside because I ride a motorcycle a lot, and you’re right the wait is almost always shorter inside the building. It’s fun to see the same cars sitting in the line when you leave.
Ahh but you can’t ever be part of a pretentious and pointless pay it forward chain, where suburbanites of the same financial status pay roughly for someone else what they would have paid for their own drinks
It is best to just put in the order online. Then you can park, walk in, grab it, walk out and be moving before they serve a single car.
Because they clearly don’t have to worry about all the extra money and time they’re wasting on gas to buy commercial coffee every day. Must be nice.
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It also could be that they are drive-through only. I live in a small town in the midwestern U.S. and a lot of fast-food places around here closed their lobbies during the pandemic and just never reopened them after, usually citing worker shortages.
so i guess no fast food for the poor. as a teen, i got rejected from trying to order from the drive thru because i didn’t have a car.
With the way the prices have risen, it’s nearly “no fast food for the poor” already anyway…
None of them honestly, both are too crouded.
Not only that, that brasserie is on the Rive Gauche in Paris so if you sit outside to watch the world go by, the fuckers charge you extra lol
(I’m just having fun thinking about the comparison, nothing too directed at your statement as I also agree with that)
Both pictures contain the same amount of people, but there is likely three more shops around the shop in the below picture which all fit in the same space as the upper one, one of which is probably also not as crowded. Also, there are at least 30 apartments in that area as well as other shops and it has worked like that for centuries, if not a millennium
Wat? The first one. The idea of going into a crowded Cafe is uhhhhhhh. People directly next to you and babies blah blah blah
💯 Yeah, I get to sit in my own comfy chair, with ac, my own music or silence, without people coughing on me, with my doors locked if I feel like it.
That type of busyness in either picture is exceptional. If I get into a car to get somewhere, it’s almost always easier AND FASTER to just stay in it.
Do I think it would be better if they were all electric? Yes.
Is coffee bad for the environment? At every step, yes.
Do I like well made espresso? Yes.
Do I want to go anywhere for a cup of coffee? No.
Do I have the equipment to make good espresso at home? No.
Do I think going without is the best form of being better for the environment? In many cases, yes.
Will I still go somewhere for a chance at a great cup of espresso? Maybe once every other month.
What is the goal of FuckCars and this sort of perspective? Seems like it should be sustainability and quality of life.
Do I think cars are the enemy? No.
Do I wish I didn’t have to deal with them? Yes.
Are there any 100% sustainable, more efficient, better quality of life suggestions that are feasible out there? Not yet.
Do I think FuckCars is a whine? Generally, yes.
Do I think it’s an important debate to keep open? One of the most important.
Why do I criticize it? Because it never addresses the complexity of the problem or produces any feasible solutions or steps to take. It’s a cope with blanket implicit blame. We all want better.
It’s been over 100° for over 40 days straight.
Fuck, yeah I’ll take the air-conditioned recliner with a sound system that plays exactly what I want and doesn’t require me to walk 4 blocks to get a cup of coffee.
Coffee shops also often have air-conditioned environments indoors.
One large benefit of classic coffee shop style design is building community. Presumably you go to your local coffee shop (this obviously doesn’t exist in suburbia) and meet other local people there. It provides opportunity to just get to meet other people, which helps people feel more connected and less scared of each other, and also let’s them rely on each other when needed. It also creates a space people can use for organization efforts. You can advertise for local mutual aid groups or political organizations or whatever else to people with likely similar interests.
Car culture (particularly in America) has destroyed most people’s sense of community. You live in your space, drive wherevever you need to go in your private bubble, and never interact with people living near you. It’s not good.
We have local coffee shops too with all the little art shows and community organizing and a bunch of annoying hippies preaching about essential oils and salt lamps. There’s like 7 of them in my town of 20,000. But sometimes people just want a godamnned mochafrappabullshit on the way into the office, and a drive-thru is a great option for them.
Honestly, I usually just use the pot at work or grab a cup in the gas station. It’s been years since I used a Starbucks. But they have their place - especially if you live somewhere where walking down the street for coffee means you have to take another shower before going in to work.
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It’s just one more block! Lol anywhere with a walkable city would have at least 2 coffee shops per km for this exact reason.
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There are not that many Starbucks in Europe, so yeah, it’s good usually.
If it isn’t, you walk 100m to the next.
That’s the joy of a good coffee culture and a decent minimum wage - most are!
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That’s Europe. We have cafes at every corner.
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Not sure how it’s in Germany, but recently I’ve visited a little hamlet in Northern Italy (150 inhabitants) that has 2 cafes.
It’s literally under the house. You just walk down the stairs and drink some coffee with your friends!
