It’s never been about the money.
The Republicans and their grifters want Putin to win. It’s just that simple.
And they want more tax cuts (until barely anything can be funded).
“The war is cheap in terms of American lives” is a right wing, nationalist sentiment. “American” lives dont have any more value than any other lives.
Sure, but the American government’s entire point is to collect American taxes and provide benefits for Americans. To minimize monetary cost and maximize benefit to American lives is exactly what it should be doing.
Wait, are you telling me that nations are oriented around nationalism?
This is why I’m for stateless global communism
What’s the point in advocating for such a wildly impossible system.
It’s only impossible because people like you refuse to see it’s possibility. If enough people see it’s possibility. It becomes not only possible, but inevitable.
You would have to overcome the combined political and military might of every country in the world to enact that system. How about you work on getting basic healthcare to people first. That actually might happen in your lifetime.
? Por que no los dos?
Because every effort devoted to unobtainable utopias is effort detracted from being politically effective in the current system and erodes the legitimacy of the left wing. And besides, most communists are hoping for revolution, and not actually helping people.
The best reason there is, to have something to dream for. We see it in tons of our literature, look at how popular Star Trek is. It’s not the crazy sci-fi stories that had people coming back, it was the world the audience wanted to live in. I wouldn’t stomp on someone’s dream like that. Especially when it is widely impossible, like who cares? It’s their dream.
It’s shortsighted to think that global communism is achievable within a human lifespan just as it is to assume that system won’t be as vulnerable to corruption as current systems are. However that’s beside the point, why advocate for something so widely impossible; because maybe it gives people hope that things may get better. If it was possible I’d definitely take more interest cause I don’t think it’ll work out how a lot of people who advocate for global communism think it will, but it’s not possible.
Because politics actually matter, and for every person LARPIng about trying to make star trek a reality, is one less person working towards achievable goals making an actual difference in our actual systems. If all of the commies stopped preparing for the revolution and started voting and being proactive in their local party politics, they’d probably be surprised how much they could get done.
Local politics don’t allow for our parties, even at that level. Electoralism is a crock. Power does not grow from a ballot box; and trying to tell me it does only makes me want your shit to collapse faster.
It does though. The democracies are functional, people vote, and the most votes choose the government. You obviously wouldn’t want to run as the stateless global communism party, because you would get zero votes, because no one wants that system. And my shit is your shit. Unless you’re prepared for societal collapse, you will want to work in the system. And frankly, the power vacuum arriving from this revolution will be filled by the right wing. They are armed, trained and ready to go.
He shares toothbrushes, you can’t reason with him.
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That’s not how global politics work. Your idealism is extreme.
“Capitalism seems inescapable, so to did the divine rights of kings” -Le Guin
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It looks to me like this war is pretty cheap on both American lives, and on the American taxpayers’ pocketbook.
It’s almost like the real reason they are against aid for Ukraine is that they just parrot whatever their media outlets put out, and they put out being against aid for Ukraine because they want Russia to win and they want lower taxes and reduced regulation for themselves. It’s almost like conservatives are really fucking gullible so long as you pretend you’re on their side and point at somebody for them to blame.
The weirdest part to me is how “support the troops” is always a priority for most in the group opposing Ukrainian support. In fact, military support is usually so critical that they can set aside many of their primary targets of small government and fiscal responsibility.
I get that this isn’t the “our” troops they usually chant about, but it easily could be, especially if Russia continues its aggressive action. It doesn’t seem that it’s that hard to understand that if you’re willing to give the US military nearly a trillion dollars, it isn’t a bad idea to give support to a country actively fighting against this threat.
I guess it really does just come down to people convinced that Russia is somehow not a threat to the US, even though the leaders of “our troops” feel differently.
I’m not particularly concerned about Russia militarily threatening the US, but a strong and emboldened Russia putting pressure on Europe is not favorable for us. Eastern Europe generally speaking has less money and power, and therefore with have trouble defending against Russia. As those nations fall, Russia gains land and resources, which makes them more of a threat to Western Europe. Even at a near stalemate in Ukraine, resources are flowing from us and our allies, bottlenecking supply chain, production, logistics, etc. This leads to challenges in receiving resources, and the price is higher if we can even get shit. If you stop thinking right there, I guess I can see how people might oppose aiding Ukraine. But people who think things through realize that Western Europe in direct conflict with a stronger Russia will only make those exact issues even worse. And decent people don’t even need to realize and understand that because the moral implications of indifference to the massive amount of dead civilians is plenty of reason to be on board. But even a sociopath should be able to understand the concept of “a stitch in time saves nine.”
“Well clearly I can’t be held responsible for my life’s problems, it must be the fault of disenfranchised minorities.”
And pretty profitable for the military complex which finally is used for a good cause. Didn’t these republicans receive their yearly lobby cheque?
Must’ve bounced, I guess. Ammo isn’t exactly cheap to make.
Your current crop of Republicans don’t really care about the US or American values - they want to live in a Margret Attwood novel.
“It’s not rape if it’s for America”
Any Republican against giving aid to Ukraine is essentially a Russian asset.
You spelled ass-hat wrong
It’s the same picture
The war is cheap in all terms (expect Ukrainian’s). I believe most of the dollar numbers you see includes equipment value when they were going to be scrapped anyway. The accountants have to give it a fair dollar value, but in practical terms it’s zero.
One has to be a truly deplorable piece of human garbage to say “The war is cheap in terms of American lives”. This is basically an admission that Americans don’t give a fuck about the lives of Ukrainians and re cynically using them as a proxy to fight Russia. Americans continue to expose themselves as the scum of the earth that they are.
Don’t care about them? We have donated BILLIONS in equipment
Yeah to try and advance your own geopolitical position. The actions of your regime resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths and a whole country being destroyed all so you chuds could try and weaken Russia in some way. You are utterly deplorable.
I guess you mean Russia had no choice but to attack Ukraine? Because of the US/NATO? If so could you explain the reasoning behind this please? I genuinely don’t understand this argument. Seems to me that this war is really detrimental to the Russian people, and they absolutely would have been better off not waging it.
sh.itsfulla.nazis poster completely ignoring how the NATO-collective West flouted the entirety of the Minsk Accords, as fucking usual. You people are oathbreakers. Always have been, always will be; 400 years of breaking treaties to all and sundry and murdering them when they call you on it. This is just another link in a chain your kind have spent hundreds of years forging, peckerwood. Murderous barbarians, every single one of you.
The war happened because NATO kept expanding eastwards. Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer.
Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
Yeah sorry but that doesn’t make any sense to me.
I get that Putin hates NATO, and that NATO expansion weakens his foreign influence. So he… invades Ukraine? Which is officially the precise reason why Finland pulled the trigger and joined NATO.
So I still have the same questions: How does the war benefit the Russian people? How is it a good response to NATO expansion? And what would have happened to Russia if Putin didn’t declare war? Would it have been worse than global economic sanctions and Finland joining NATO (not to mention the cost of war itself)?
NATO now openly admits that it’s running low on weapons and that it lacks industrial capacity to keep up with Russia. European economies are in a crisis, and pro western governments are starting to fall as we just saw in Slovakia. If you still don’t understand what a massive strategic defeat for NATO this proxy war was, then you’re going to see a lot of surprises in the near future. The BRICS is now a bigger economic bloc than the G7, and there’s a whole alternative economy now developing outside western control.
Meanwhile, Russia is in a far stronger geopolitical position today and majority of the world supports Russia against the west:
- https://ecfr.eu/publication/united-west-divided-from-the-rest-global-public-opinion-one-year-into-russias-war-on-ukraine/
- https://usrussiaaccord.org/acura-viewpoint-krishen-mehta-the-ukraine-war-viewed-from-the-global-south/
- https://www.eiu.com/n/russias-pockets-of-support-are-growing-in-the-developing-world/
Russian economy is now projected to grow by 2.5% and industrial output in Russia is surging while it’s collapsing in the west and Europe is now in a recession.
https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/b7141fc969fc4475bd6e1e2d4e16609e
What would have happened was that NATO was going to absorb Ukraine and put nuclear weapons on Russian border. This was a red line that was very clearly communicated to NATO. It all comes down to the fact that NATO decided that it could act unilaterally and ignore concerns of all other countries. Now, Russia says that it is willing to challenge NATO militarily.
Thinking that this has been anything other than an utter debacle for NATO illustrates profound lack of understanding of what’s actually happening.
The BRICS is now a bigger economic bloc than the G7
Yeah that’s mostly China (and India) though.
Russia says that it is willing to challenge NATO militarily.
Russia also said the war would last 3 days. And that they were freeing the Ukrainians from nazi jews.
OK so the reason is fear of nuclear weapons creeping closer? But NATO already has dozens of nuclear warheads in range of Russia, doesn’t it? Seems like bullshit to me, and seeing you gloating about the rise of BRICS vs the west makes me think I’m right.
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How long did it take you to come up with the dumbest take humanely possible?
You want a war with billions of deaths and think I am dumb. That is hilarious.
We haven’t donated shit: it’s all being done through lend-lease. The Ukrainians will be be paying back the massive debt for generations, assuming the country even survives.
Crazy idea, how about we have a few years where we aren’t involved in some war?
Wouldn’t it be nice if all these tyrants like Putin would just stay in their own homes…?
If only it were that simple to look the other way from your neighbor getting attacked and raped.
As if such persons ever stop after their first successful house…
Oh man, maybe if there was some agreeement between Russia and Ukraine that avoided war, it could even be negotiated in a third country, maybe in Minsk? That could have been a great way to avoid war, too bad nothing like that happened. Imagine if NATO even broke such treaty? Would be too far fetched even Call of Duty haha
I think Hungary would be a better choice. Or were you going for a variety in places for Ukrainian and Russian agreements?
I didn’t know Ukraine was a neighbour of the US, or maybe you are talking metaphorically in the sense of “our white supremacists pals/neighbours”.
Russia should not be in any part of Ukraine, including Crimea.
United States and Russia agreed on the subject.
Spanish has gendered nouns, they can either be masculine or feminine, but there are some adjectives that are kind of neuter. Do you want to stay on the subject or just ramble about whatever, because I never mentioned whatever you’re bringing up.
whatabout whatabout whatabout ad infinitum
Funny that when liberals do it they get upvoted to the stars; let it get turned on them tho lmfao…
Kindly explain how this is whataboutism.
Europe can intervene then
They told us the kinds of people they were when they said “some lives would have to be lost for the economy”. At the time, they were talking about COVID. You see just how quick that pivots to the military-industrial complex when western “liberal” dronies feel they have a self-justified underclass to aim at.
Bonus points if the Korean War also ends
This meme is such a dumbass lib take. A broken clock… Just because Republicans came to the conclusion that the war should end for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that the conclusion is wrong. We should all be pushing for negotiations and an end to the bloodshed. You dronies have become absolutely insufferable. If you’re so pro-war, then why don’t you volunteer and head to the frontline? Slava my anus!
Why should Ukraine ask for anything less than the full withdraw of Russian forces from inside their borders?
Why should Russia settle for anything less than an end to the cleansing of ethnic Russians in Ukraine? They tried to negotiate an end to this, but the US admitted that the agreement was just to buy time in order to arm Ukraine.
Ukraine can ask for a quadrillion dollars in compensation, but it doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen. Russia is completely in control of this conflict and if the bloodshed is going to end, the Ukrainian state needs a fucking reality check in order to come to terms with the fact they they’re going to need to make some concessions.
There it is, the full Russian propaganda
You haven’t answered any of my questions. I wonder why that is 🤔
Because you’re asking stupid ass questions that lead down your own rabbit hole and no one wants to go down there but you.
You must go
Because these yanks don’t have an answer. They just want hegemony. They just want domination. They want Russian bodies and blood, have wanted Russian bodies and blood for seventy+ years; and now will stop at nothing to get it, like the bloodthirsty mongrels they are. Like the absolute fucking horrorshow ghouls they always have been, since antiquity. And y’know the absolute most hilarious part of all this? The most laugh-riot thing they’ll do in like five years, after this conflict’s been put out of collective memory?
They’ll all, every single one of these mongrels, will act like they didn’t spend these days baying for the blood of the innocent. Just like in Iraq. Just like in Afghanistan. Just like in Syria. Just like in Libya. Just like… Ad infinitum. And they’ll never be held accountable for it.
Because you’re asking for people to explain things that you made up
Because now you’re just making things up. There is no evidence of Ukrainian led ethnic cleansing.
What would you call banning pro Russian political parties from running in elections, banning the use of the Russian language in schools and state affairs? What would you call it when a paramilitary of neonazis shells the villages, towns, and cities of a specific ethnic group who declared independence because they saw their rights being stripped away? If you believe any of this to be okay, then you might be, no, you are a fascist.
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There it is, the full American propaganda.
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You’re talking about the war that Putin just said Russia never started, right? That war? The one that Putin has refused negotiations to stop multiple times?
I just want to make sure you’re commenting on the same war the rest of the world is talking about.
Thank you for not being a sociopathic war monger.
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Says the conservative.
That’s right america, go help people kill eachother already!!!
Russia’s welcome to leave any time.
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NATO is welcome to dissolve anytime. The Cold War is over.
They’re defending from an invasion that Russia could stop whenever they want.
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No, just the ones invading.
Do you regularly try to win arguments by putting words in people’s mouth? How is that working for you?
Just the ones supporting Putin & to be honest, no reason to limit that to just Russians.
All Russians in Ukraine? Yes, that’s usually the answer how to defend yourself against an unjust invasion.
Heck Ukraine is doing even better and provides very good resources to guide Russian soldiers how to surrender.
Just the ones murdering children in Ukraine. So all of the Russians invading the sovereign country ofUkraine.
Or they could go home lol
Go home, Russian propaganda.
Yes absolutely I don’t support people dying so I must be a russian supporter.
People are dying because of Russia. As soon as Russia goes home with you, people stop dying.
War should not be an option. People are dying because two idiots won’t give up. No country should support either side.
Naivety shouldn’t be an option either, yet here you are.
And yet, Russia has invaded another sovereign state. You are suggesting that there should be no response to that, that Russian soldiers should be left alone to do whatever they want within the borders of Ukraine.
I hope someone breaks into your house with a gun and starts threatening you with it, just to give you the opportunity to follow your principles and not call the police.
Seriously, go home Russian propaganda. You’re not even good at it.
So you do support people dying? That’s insane. I will never understand people like you.
So you’re in favor of Ukraine just laying down and letting Russia do whatever they want?
Are you daft? I support people defending their sovereign nation against invasion, and defending themselves against being killed by invaders.
When the aforementioned gun-toting invader breaks into your house, what is your response? Shrug your shoulders and leave, just give up your house and possessions therein? Where will you live? What will you eat?
Most boring troll Ive seen in a while
I very much support people dying. Imagine our resource crunch if they didn’t!
You’re right, we should nuke Moscow and be done with it.
You know, if someone is trying to kill you, you don’t have to let them. You’re allowed to take any necessary actions to defend yourself, up to and including killing them.
In this metaphor, Russia is trying to “kill” (take over) Ukraine. Everyone including me would love it if they stopped, because war is in fact bad, but as long as they don’t, Ukraine is acting in self defense, and thus supporting them is morally justified.
You would have a point if they’d both been pointlessly agitating against each other for ages. But in cases where both sides are not morally equal, arguing that they are runs cover for those in the wrong. That’s what you’re doing.
So you think Russia should win and be able to do whatever they want to the Ukrainian civilians in the future? Especially those who not meekly accept this? Resulting in bloody crackdowns just as they do to their own citizens?
And then of course in a few years they just go and invade the next country like Moldavia and you then again think everyone should just stop fighting, resulting in Russia to win again?
That would be the result of you naive approach to Russia’s continuing aggressive imperialistic expansion!
Obviously not. I’m saying this is not the right option.
Right, you’re a supporter of killing Ukranians got it
Are false equivalences and bloodshed all liberals are good for anymore?
Well, I do know for a fact that conservatives are (a) less educated, and (b) MRIs show diminished anterior cingulate cortex and enlarged amygdalas, which translates to lacking pattern recognition and dissonance while being hypersensitive to fear and disgust, so…
Can’t expect much logic from that starting point…
There’s functionally no difference between an American conservative and an American liberal save their universally-corrupt lobbyist masters, the pet interests they claim to support, and the color of their ties. You describe yourself as you slander them, not that I expect you to be willing to wrap your maladapted meat around that concept.
Unless, of course, that whole spew of irrelevant garbage was meant to liken me to a conservative-- in which case, you answer my question in the positive. False equivalencies, falser dichotomies, and braindead ‘discourse’ is all your kind is good for anymore.
That’s neat conjecture and botherism and all, but I’m citing facts. You’re just speculating.
When did I say that?
They only think in binary choices. Us versus them. They want the false dichotomy because it’s easier. The thought that both sides are bad can’t even enter the conversation.
The whole idea of refusing to cede land seems so insane to me. Russian and Ukranian soil look the same from 6 feet under.
Stop making sense. It hurts my narrative.
They don’t look the same from ground level. Hence the fighting. The Ukranians would prefer not to be genocided, but Russia seems dead set on exterminating them. You know with all the Nazi style mass graves they’ve been making.
Also that’s some serious victim blaming mentality you’re peddling there. “Well if you hadn’t put up a fight your rapist wouldn’t have hit you. Why resist?”
Why is it so difficult for you to believe that some people might value their own lives over nationalism or the wishes of the ruling elite class? Y’all are so bloodthirsty that you would criticize any Ukranian that dare to try to live instead of wholeheartedly volunteering to be thrown into a meat grinder.
What a fucked up meme, do you warmonger much?
Come on now, you know the left panels would have said something about tax breaks for “job creators.” You only wish they fumbled on their absurd message.
Alternative is we just print another 80billion while simultaneously trying to curb inflation. Good plan!
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