Man, every time I see videos like that, my heart breaks. Those are actual human beings with families, loved ones, hopes and dreams… (I know Russia does much worse things to the other side, but that doesn’t change the feeling. Most conscripts are just brainwashed cannon fodder :()
Even the worst human is still a human. You can’t blame a person for lamenting the loss of a human life without losing your own humanity, in my opinion. Empathy saves lives.
Don’t be so naive. “Empathy saves lives”? You’d say that out loud to one of the innumerable Russian “soldiers” responsible for those vile crimes as they tried to do the same to you? That’s what you’d tell your rapist/murderer in that moment of sheer panic and terror? Are you fucking serious?
Oh. No? Hunh. Seems pretty easy to have such a rosy perspective when it’s so distant from your own safe little life. Go figure.
They are not monsters though, they are very human. Doing horrible shit is as human as eating or shitting. I think most people here would do the same thing if they were raised in similar conditions. Most people don’t even see (much less care enough to do something about) the injustices going on in their own society.
Most people don’t even see (much less care enough to do something about) the injustices going on in their own society.
For fucks sake, what an incredibly disingenous whataboutism attempt.
Also since you are on about rationalising the actions of Russian soldiers, this is an actual invasion of another country we are talking about. These people are actively participating, whether they wanted to or not. For everyone of them killed chances are innocent civilian Ukrainians will not get murdered by them, have their homes destroyed by them or have loved ones killed or injured by them. You know, the actual innocent victims of this completely unnecessary invasion. Your rationalisation goes both ways.
I don’t think that Im rationalizing, more like the opposite and saying that most people are similarly irrational, there’s no evil-gene that just they have.
That said, if they take up arms and go to kill innocent people then they obvilusly need to be put down. Similarly to how a dog trained by a dog fighter might need to be put down even if it’s just a pawn in someone elses twisted game. So yes these russians have to be killed in self defence until they leave.
All I’m saying is that i always find it a bit rich that people act as if they would always do the right thing in similar circumstance.
That’s ridiculous; there are millions of people raised in bad conditions who don’t do the same. Humans are inherently pro-social; original sin isn’t a thing. They are monsters.
I’m not saying that it’s especially bad conditions, more like indoctrinating conditions. It’s not like germany had very bad conditions when they started ww2 either.
But if you don’t think it’s a problem with the society and culture then the only real common denominator is ethnicity. Which kind of means that ought to be genocided when russia eventually falls.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 3
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
[…]
Article 10
Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 11
Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
One can hate the Russian invation without chanting “DEATH TO ALL RUSSIANS!!!”
There is a difference between wishing death to all Russians and wishing death to all Russian invaders. One can and should help every Russian invader be killed or captured. They individually choose, every single day, to help kill Ukrainians defending their homes. Every Russian invader killed means less Ukrainians die.
They can choose to walk west with a white flag above their head. They can choose to fight those who put them in Ukraine. Instead they choose, every single day, to help kill Ukrainians defending their homes.
This is pushing it. Sympathy for russian combatants will not be tolerated here, but, calling for the mass annihilation of russians is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Be happy Ukranians are just a little bit safer today. But cheer? No. Too much.
Unfortunately their misguidance is putting them in a position where they’re there to kill Ukranians, and asking nicely didn’t get them to not be there.
That distinction is completely pointless though. Misguided people murdering people still needs to be stopped, with violence if necessary. And it definitely is necessary when we are talking about them invading another country and murdering its citizens.
Internet ≠ Internet. It’s heavily censored and monitored in Russia. They don’t have access to all the information we do. Plus, all other media are brainwashing them with propaganda. Makes it hard to believe if some website tells a completely different story.
However, there are those who stay informed and don’t support the war. They just can’t do it openly.
I’ve been watching the YouTube channel 1420 where they interview people on the streets of Moscow. Many of them are held hostage too. You can tell that they don’t want to speak freely for fear of criminal punishment. One guy even said something to the effect of, “Why don’t 100 Americans come over here and protest the war to see what happens.” The Russian government quells any form of rebellious organization. To take Putin out of power, it’s gonna have to come from the top or a sporadic mass protest after a Bloody Sunday a la 1917 Russian Revolution.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And I’d feel horrible for the human being on the other side of the scope… I’m talking about the actual human being with a life being killed. Not the politics behind it.
That doesn’t mean I’m justifying the atrocities Russia commits or even remotely support their unprovoked attack. Russia is the bad guy, no discussion. But they’re still humans and I can still feel bad for the needless loss of human life.
Man, every time I see videos like that, my heart breaks. Those are actual human beings with families, loved ones, hopes and dreams… (I know Russia does much worse things to the other side, but that doesn’t change the feeling. Most conscripts are just brainwashed cannon fodder :()
Fuck war so much…
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Even the worst human is still a human. You can’t blame a person for lamenting the loss of a human life without losing your own humanity, in my opinion. Empathy saves lives.
Don’t be so naive. “Empathy saves lives”? You’d say that out loud to one of the innumerable Russian “soldiers” responsible for those vile crimes as they tried to do the same to you? That’s what you’d tell your rapist/murderer in that moment of sheer panic and terror? Are you fucking serious?
Oh. No? Hunh. Seems pretty easy to have such a rosy perspective when it’s so distant from your own safe little life. Go figure.
My safe life? I’m a war veteran.
No, you can’t rape, torture, and murder without losing your own humanity. Humanizing monsters hurts the victims.
They are not monsters though, they are very human. Doing horrible shit is as human as eating or shitting. I think most people here would do the same thing if they were raised in similar conditions. Most people don’t even see (much less care enough to do something about) the injustices going on in their own society.
For fucks sake, what an incredibly disingenous whataboutism attempt.
Also since you are on about rationalising the actions of Russian soldiers, this is an actual invasion of another country we are talking about. These people are actively participating, whether they wanted to or not. For everyone of them killed chances are innocent civilian Ukrainians will not get murdered by them, have their homes destroyed by them or have loved ones killed or injured by them. You know, the actual innocent victims of this completely unnecessary invasion. Your rationalisation goes both ways.
I don’t think that Im rationalizing, more like the opposite and saying that most people are similarly irrational, there’s no evil-gene that just they have.
That said, if they take up arms and go to kill innocent people then they obvilusly need to be put down. Similarly to how a dog trained by a dog fighter might need to be put down even if it’s just a pawn in someone elses twisted game. So yes these russians have to be killed in self defence until they leave.
All I’m saying is that i always find it a bit rich that people act as if they would always do the right thing in similar circumstance.
That’s ridiculous; there are millions of people raised in bad conditions who don’t do the same. Humans are inherently pro-social; original sin isn’t a thing. They are monsters.
I’m not saying that it’s especially bad conditions, more like indoctrinating conditions. It’s not like germany had very bad conditions when they started ww2 either.
But if you don’t think it’s a problem with the society and culture then the only real common denominator is ethnicity. Which kind of means that ought to be genocided when russia eventually falls.
Guess where this is coppied from …
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There is a difference between wishing death to all Russians and wishing death to all Russian invaders. One can and should help every Russian invader be killed or captured. They individually choose, every single day, to help kill Ukrainians defending their homes. Every Russian invader killed means less Ukrainians die.
Donate to Ukraine and help them remove the invaders.
You genuinely believe every single Russian soldier is there out of their own free will?
They can choose to walk west with a white flag above their head. They can choose to fight those who put them in Ukraine. Instead they choose, every single day, to help kill Ukrainians defending their homes.
No, we must help Ukraine remove the invaders.
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This is pushing it. Sympathy for russian combatants will not be tolerated here, but, calling for the mass annihilation of russians is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Be happy Ukranians are just a little bit safer today. But cheer? No. Too much.
If it helps: their deaths were just.
@Firipu @Wilshire No. There is internet access in Russia. Every russian knows what’s going on.
No pity for the orcs. They come to murder.
That’s a very simple way of putting things imo :)
The west also has internet access. Some people still end up hateful/believing in flat earth/conspiracy theories.
That doesn’t mean they’re bad people, just very misguided.
@Firipu It is always strange that there are people who pity the perpetrator and not the victim.
The war on Ukraine is not a natural disaster. It is made by russians. Go Figure!
Oh, I feel equally bad, or even worse when I see what happens to Ukrainians. My heart bleeds for what they’re going through.
That doesn’t mean I can’t feel empathy for individual people that get killed in the blink of an eye…
Unfortunately their misguidance is putting them in a position where they’re there to kill Ukranians, and asking nicely didn’t get them to not be there.
I think they’re bad people.
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That distinction is completely pointless though. Misguided people murdering people still needs to be stopped, with violence if necessary. And it definitely is necessary when we are talking about them invading another country and murdering its citizens.
Internet ≠ Internet. It’s heavily censored and monitored in Russia. They don’t have access to all the information we do. Plus, all other media are brainwashing them with propaganda. Makes it hard to believe if some website tells a completely different story.
However, there are those who stay informed and don’t support the war. They just can’t do it openly.
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@fluxion That’s what you tell all the ukrainian girls after they have been tortured and gang raped by some “random poor fucks” from Russia.
Obviously I’m not talking about known murderers/rapists
I’ve been watching the YouTube channel 1420 where they interview people on the streets of Moscow. Many of them are held hostage too. You can tell that they don’t want to speak freely for fear of criminal punishment. One guy even said something to the effect of, “Why don’t 100 Americans come over here and protest the war to see what happens.” The Russian government quells any form of rebellious organization. To take Putin out of power, it’s gonna have to come from the top or a sporadic mass protest after a Bloody Sunday a la 1917 Russian Revolution.
See: Kent State Massacre
Can you elaborate on how that is relevant?
Not OP, but possibly the Kent State massacre was the watershed event that shifted US public opinion about the war.
ah, thank you! that makes sense to me now
what can i say except quote general Sherman:
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Would they not pull the trigger all the same if the situations were reversed?
Oh yeah, absolutely. And I’d feel horrible for the human being on the other side of the scope… I’m talking about the actual human being with a life being killed. Not the politics behind it.
That doesn’t mean I’m justifying the atrocities Russia commits or even remotely support their unprovoked attack. Russia is the bad guy, no discussion. But they’re still humans and I can still feel bad for the needless loss of human life.