Misinformation campaigns increasingly target the cavity-fighting mineral, prompting communities to reverse mandates. Dentists are enraged. Parents are caught in the middle.

Misinformation campaigns increasingly target the cavity-fighting mineral, prompting communities to reverse mandates. Dentists are enraged. Parents are caught in the middle.

The culture wars have a new target: your teeth.

Communities across the U.S. are ending public water fluoridation programs, often spurred by groups that insist that people should decide whether they want the mineral — long proven to fight cavities — added to their water supplies.

The push to flush it from water systems seems to be increasingly fueled by pandemic-related mistrust of government oversteps and misleading claims, experts say, that fluoride is harmful.

“The anti-fluoridation movement gained steam with Covid,” said Dr. Meg Lochary, a pediatric dentist in Union County, North Carolina. “We’ve seen an increase of people who either don’t want fluoride or are skeptical about it.”

There should be no question about the dental benefits of fluoride, Lochary and other experts say. Major public health groups, including the American Dental Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, support the use of fluoridated water. All cite studies that show it reduces tooth decay by 25%.

  • QuentinCallaghan@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    200·
    12 days ago

    “Medical freedom”, the rallying cry for all kinds of grifters spreading disinformation and wanting to roll back the progress made in public health.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      73·
      12 days ago

      And they don’t seem to like the fact that they have the freedom to filter the fluoride back out of the water.

    • john89@lemmy.ca
      12·
      12 days ago

      🥱

      Or, give people the option to choose for themselves.

      Scientific consensus has been wrong many times before, and it will be wrong many times again.

        • john89@lemmy.ca
          7·
          12 days ago

          Right.

          Let’s put any amount of contaminates in our drinking water just so people can “filter them out.”

          Someone mentioned arsenic earlier in this thread, and I think I can find some study that says arsenic is good for you. Let’s add it to our water and anyone who thinks it’s harmful can just filter it out.

          Also, I’m adding my fecal matter to the water supply to improve people’s microbiomes. They can just filter it out if they don’t like it.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            51·
            12 days ago

            Fluoride is not a contaminant, but please do find a study that says arsenic is good for you. This should be interesting.

            • john89@lemmy.ca
              3·
              12 days ago

              Fluoride is not a contaminant

              Says who?

              https://gizmodo.com/hey-remember-when-people-used-to-eat-arsenic-as-a-heal-1676316276

              It’s not a study, but there was a time when people believed arsenic wasn’t poisonous. There were most likely scientists back in the day advocating for its usage. You can find their work if you’re really interested.

              A more recent and easier to research example would be all the “studies” saying lead is safe. Do I have to specifically point to those, or can you understand my point without it?

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                41·
                12 days ago

                It’s not a study

                Okay, so note what you claimed.

                There were most likely scientists back in the day advocating for its usage. You can find their work if you’re really interested.

                It’s not my job to prove you aren’t lying.

                • john89@lemmy.ca
                  2·
                  12 days ago

                  I mean, if you don’t want to understand then you won’t understand.

                  I’ve done my part. If you want to replace arsenic with lead, then will it make sense?

                  Probably not because you don’t want to understand.

                  Also,

                  Fluoride is not a contaminant

                  Says who?

                  You conveniently ignored this part.

      • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
        3·
        11 days ago

        I’m struggling with this.

        You’re saying that because science was wrong about something else, it must be wrong about fluoride?

        I think that if you really dig into it, you’ll find that arsenic use wasn’t supported by science, but rather snake oil salesmen.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    129·
    12 days ago

    The thing that seriously hurts those anti-fluoridation nuts is that fluoride can naturally be in water supplies and there are water supplies with higher PPM fluoride amounts than municipalities that add them in the U.S., but there don’t appear to be any increased health issues.

    Not that such people generally care.

        • HubertManne@kbin.social
          2·
          12 days ago

          I don’t think bringing attention to conspiracy theories as conspiracy theories is bad. If anything its a good thing. I mean if it was the about the lizard aliens or flat earthers it would be the same.

          • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
            4·
            12 days ago

            I’m not so sure about that after the last 8-9 years of political discourse in the US. You assume bringing light to them means people will see how ridiculous they are, but in reality they just bring the conspiracy into the forefront, where people then take sides and dig their heels in.

            Trump getting a ton of coverage as the laughing stock candidate leading up to the 2016 election gave him the edge he needed to win while the rest of us thought the coverage would lead to a landslide victory for his opponent.

  • inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
    53·
    12 days ago

    Hey, a article that bucks Betteridge’s Law.

    Of course there’s no question, yes, and Republicans and communities should be ashamed at being this stupid to cater to such a dumb, ridiculous, and small group of idiots and are going to cost everyone more in dental insurance to socialize the cost of their stupidity.

  • Red_October@lemmy.world
    51·
    11 days ago

    They have their freedom, they are free to do whatever they want to filter their own drinking water. They’re free to buy or produce distilled water for all their consumption. They’re free to only ever drink beer. But the drinking water provided as a public good should be maintained for the good of the public, and when the studies are pretty clear that fluoridated water fights tooth decay, then fluoridated water it is.

  • glimse@lemmy.world
    48·
    12 days ago

    I’m very much on the pro-flouride but it came up in a conversation with my coworker who won’t drink tap water.

    I said that in a country without universal healthcare, fluoride is free dental care. He said he agreed about the benefit to teeth but his concern was with what it might do to your body. He’s a health nut but not a conspiracy theories and I was really thrown off and didn’t have a counterpoint.

    I just assumed it was fine because I knew fluoride is often found in water naturally…but…can someone with more knowledge tell me how they would have replied? I don’t like speaking on things I can’t back up with data so I just let it go

    • undercrust@lemmy.ca
      53·
      12 days ago

      If the stupid motherfucker brushes his teeth twice daily, he’s already introducing loads more fluoride to his body than any of the trace amounts they add into the public water system, which is still standards of deviation less than anything that would introduce fluorosis of childrens’ teeth (since that’s not possible for adults with developed teeth), let alone get to a level of toxicity for an adult.

      Now, if he regularly consumes full tubes of toothpaste as a health supplement, then maybe that’s a reason to be concerned about fluoride.

      • glimse@lemmy.world
        24·
        12 days ago

        All right settle down, he’s not a stupid motherfucker. He isn’t advocating to remove it from tap water, he was just saying why HE doesn’t drink tap. He didn’t try to pursuade me.

        Perhaps he’s misguided on that but he is not the person you’re probably picturing.

        My friend is a doctor and he also doesn’t drink tap but for him it’s the other contaminates, not flouride

          • starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works
            13·
            12 days ago

            I would’ve agreed with this a few years ago, but when you realize things can have subtle effects on our body that aren’t easy to measure or readily apparent, you shouldn’t fully trust something just because studies say it’s safe. A study can’t really show that “50 years of repeated exposure caused slightly more exhaustion,” for example.

            However, we DO know tooth decay is a major health risk for our whole bodies. Avoiding a maybe possibly slightly harmful chemical isn’t stupid, but avoiding something that prevents known and documented dental harm and the effects that has on your entire body, that’s just letting fear override rational thinking.

        • prole@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          11·
          12 days ago

          As someone who works directly with water treatment systems, at best he’s an ignorant motherfucker. But good news: ignorance can be fixed.

          • glimse@lemmy.world
            9·
            12 days ago

            Ignorant, sure, but he’s not stupid. Flouride in water is not for people like him who already take great care of their teeth - it’s for people who don’t.

            It’s not stupid to avoid consuming something that doesn’t benefit you. Like I know lithium is used safely to treat bipolar but I don’t have bipolar so I wouldn’t be stupid for wanting it filtered out. Like I said, he doesn’t advocate for its removal - he just doesn’t want to drink it himself

            • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
              6·
              12 days ago

              You ever hear the joke about an American tourist only drinking alcohol on a trip to Mexico, because you can’t trust the water, and then someone asking them where they got their ice cubes?

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                2·
                11 days ago

                On the other hand, at least back when I was there as an American teenager in the 90s, avoiding the water in Mexico was a good plan.

                Parents: It’s okay to drink the water in this town, we drove past a water treatment plant.

                Me: Absolutely no way.

                Guess who didn’t regret saying “absolutely no way?”

                • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
                  3·
                  11 days ago

                  Well, the thing about your friend is that even if he were only drinking boiled well water or whatever, he’s still consuming plenty of the metaphorical ice cubes.

                  I’d say that’s the only real point the anti-flouridation crowd has, really. Even if they want to opt out, they can’t. Even if their local water utility stops flouridation, anything shipped in will still have it, be it bottled water, frozen meals, anything that uses tap water in production, really.

        • Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world
          13·
          12 days ago

          You would kill yourself drinking too much water long before you’d have to worry about fluoride toxicity in the US. Part of our water treatment protocols also include reducing fluoride levels when they’re naturally too high.

        • undercrust@lemmy.ca
          9·
          12 days ago

          Dude, that’s for the odds someone might have hypothyroidism, not at all related to toxicity.

          And as noted by the authors:

          “Hence, the application of standard household water purification (such as reversed osmosis, electro dialysis, activated carbon filter, and other adsorption/ion-exchange methods) is recommended for patients with hypothyroidism since they have a higher consumption of drinking water. The purification systems can help remove fluoride that interferes with thyroid functions.”

          So, if you have a family history of hypothyroidism, and you care at all about trying to avoid this incredibly common and easily treatable issue; use a water filter. It probably won’t help since family history and regular exercise are much more highly correlated with the incidence of hypothyroidism, but sure, why not.

          Also, and this is fun, they conveniently ignore the fact that the people drinking the most water (5+ cups group) have a lower adjusted-odds-ratio (OR) of hypothyroidism.

          How about the part where the level of fluoride in the water being in the higher end of the spectrum (0.3-0.5 mg/L) gives you a *checks notes* oh yeah, 3.4% higher incidence rate of hypothyroidism. Right.

      • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
        7·
        12 days ago

        And apparently even flourosis is only a cosmetic …illness? Honestly if Americans weren’t so obsessed with the cosmetics of teeth they might not even really notice. Like to the extent that people will strip their enamel in an attempt to whiten them. Even I had to look up what it was.

        • glimse@lemmy.world
          3·
          12 days ago

          Flouride helps prevent tooth decay. Tooth decay is painful and can lead to much more serious condition…it’s not just fluorosis it protects against.

          Misinterpreted their comment

          • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
            3·
            12 days ago

            …the flourosis is caused by too much flouride. I’m saying people are worried about the side effects of too much flouride when they’re pretty much entirely cosmetic anyway. If you’re gonna “um akshully” on the internet at least Google it first.

            • glimse@lemmy.world
              2·
              12 days ago

              Ya know, sometimes people misread or misinrerpret comments and you don’t need to be a dick about it

      • SeaJ@lemm.ee
        6·
        12 days ago

        There is non fluoridated toothpaste. Not that I would use it but it does exist.

    • Okokimup@lemmy.world
      12·
      12 days ago

      I’m having thyroid problems, and in trying to research iodine, I have found that fluoride can have a negative impact on thyroid function. This link is the best I can do on the subject, given that I’m not sure how to find much trustworthy information. It says that as long as iodine intake is sufficient, the fluoride shouldn’t be a problem. But I’m finding conflicting info on what constitutes sufficient iodine intake.

      • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
        14·
        12 days ago

        If you consume any iodized salt you should be good on that, unless you have a medical condition that prevents your body from absorbing it properly. In fact people don’t really get goiters anymore since the introduction of iodized salt which was done to prevent said goiters(a goiter is a swollen thyroid from lack of iodine intake iirc).

        • Okokimup@lemmy.world
          4·
          12 days ago

          I was not using iodized salt at all. I think since “elevated” cooking has become so popular, I can’t be the only one who was eschewing it (Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat straight up recommends avoiding it). I also don’t eat much seafood. When I was diagnosed hypothyroid 25 years ago, I was told I had a goiter. And not told much else.

          • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
            9·
            12 days ago

            I’m just an internet rando, but I’d definitely recommend talking to your doctor about iodized salt intake or alternatives. Iodine was added to salt when they figured out people living in middle America away from the shorelines had severe iodine deficiencies and goiters were very common. That’s all I know about it. I just like weird history tidbits like that

      • glimse@lemmy.world
        5·
        12 days ago

        Interesting, thanks for the link! I figured there had to be something to it because he’s a really smart guy and not in any way conspiratorial. His teeth are also in great shape so his way of living doesn’t appear to be hurting anyone.

        For the record, he was not preaching. I was just filling up from the kitchen sink while he used the filtered water thingy so it came up. He was talking only about himself when he expressed his concern

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        2·
        12 days ago

        ah sick, as someone with vitiligo, this is yet another thing i should put on the extremely metaphorical back burner here.

        (the partial joke here is that people with vitiligo have increased chances of having thyroidal issues due to the immune system or whatever the fuck, health is fun.)

    • ikidd@lemmy.worldEnglish
      7·
      12 days ago

      Mercury is naturally occurring in water as well. That’s not really a guide to go by.

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      5·
      12 days ago

      idk probably maybe tell him to never put anything into his mouth that isn’t IMMEDIATELY sterilized, before, during and after the process of entering your mouth for fear of possible contaminants getting into your body.

      • glimse@lemmy.world
        2·
        12 days ago

        I know you’re being sarcastic but I at least appreciate that you actually answered my question unlike the other replies.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          6·
          12 days ago

          im not being sarcastic tbh. If you’re that concerned about something like fluoride in the water, you best be sure you never accidentally touch the ground outside, and then put your hand near your mouth.

          There are so many more significant things to worry about, even being near someone who is sick is probably going to be more detrimental to your health.

          but yes i am definitely being dramatic, it’s fun :)

          • glimse@lemmy.world
            3·
            12 days ago

            Ok, replace sarcastic with hyperbolic and I still appreciate it. Everyone else is just shitting on my coworker like he’s MAGA flat earther. What I should have really said is that he consumes more flouride by brushing his teeth than he would drinking tap water

            • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              1·
              11 days ago

              yeah, at the end of the day it’s important to be capable of gauging the importance of something. Even more so than actually understanding that specific within the importance.

  • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.worldEnglish
    45·
    12 days ago

    So we’ve circled back to to water/fluoride water conspiracies again?

    History, doomed to repeat, before our very eyes once more…

    • sudo42@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      12 days ago

      Can always rely on the classics to stir up the rubes. A new sucker born every minute.

  • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
    24·
    12 days ago

    I absolutely can’t stand minty or cinnamon toothpaste, and have really struggled with brushing my teeth because of it. It drives me absolutely insane that so many of the flavors I can tolerate are only available in fluoride free formulations and/or get discontinued.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      15·
      12 days ago

      I have issues with brushing too. I have a nerve disorder in my face which makes brushing my teeth extremely painful, so I can’t do it all that often. I definitely benefit from fluoridated drinking water.

          • john89@lemmy.ca
            2·
            12 days ago

            I mean, if you still get cavities and gum disease then what benefit are you really getting?

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
              14·
              12 days ago

              Fewer cavities and less gum disease. I’m not sure why you don’t consider making something less of a health problem to be beneficial.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                  9·
                  12 days ago

                  Be as dubious as you like.

                  You just seem to have poor dental health

                  I never said that, you did.

                  you don’t take care of your teeth properly.

                  Yes, I explained why.

                • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
                  8·
                  12 days ago

                  You seem to be a very nosey person with strange opinions. Seems like you can easily do something about it, while Flying Squid can’t. Maybe take this opportunity?

        • AquaTofana@lemmy.world
          2·
          12 days ago

          So, I do brush my teeth at least daily (I shoot for twice, but I’m not going to pretend that always happens), and I’ve recently started flossing once daily (recently as in, it was my New Years resolution).

          I’ve only had cavities twice in my life - once when I spent 2 years living in Okinawa, and once when I got back from a deployment where we were advised to only drink bottled water.

          No other adjustments to my routine. The only thing I can chalk it up to is the lack of fluoride in both instances. And like I said, I’m not someone who takes immaculate care of my teeth.

          Edit: Purely anecdotal experience, obviously, I just really couldn’t come up with an alternative answer 🤷‍♀️

      • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
        1·
        12 days ago

        Ouch, that must really suck! I’m not dealing with actual physical pain here, just hate the minty fresh feeling in my mouth. Does mouthwash cause pain for you? I’ve never really used it, but briefly wondered if I could use a fluoride free toothpaste plus a fluoridated mouthwash, but I think I ran into the same issue with limited fluoridated flavors.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
          4·
          12 days ago

          Mouthwash does not cause pain for me, but I think that’s pretty disgusting and I’m currently dealing with a different health problem that involves heaving. Hooray shitty genes. I may resort to it one day if I have to.

    • snapoff@sh.itjust.works
      9·
      12 days ago

      Crest two in one shield is strawberry flavor with fluoride. Source: I have a teen with the same aversion. It doesn’t have animals or anything on it, but it is a “kids” toothpaste. You’d never know without reading it though, so I thought I’d mention it. Sorry if you’ve already heard of that one.

      • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
        3·
        12 days ago

        I haven’t tried it, but will keep it in mind. I’m currently using the Hello brand toothpastes. They seem to be a little less sweet than most other kids toothpastes, which is a big plus for me. I like their bubblegum and orange flavors best, and the blue raspberry isn’t bad either. They have some other flavors without fluoride, so you have to pay attention though.

          • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
            2·
            11 days ago

            Yeah, Crest used to sell an orange flavored toothpaste that wasn’t a kid’s product, and when it got discontinued, I paid about $30 for 3 tubes, so I was super excited to find another orange toothpaste. The only challenge is that very few stores carry the orange one, so I think I ended up buying it directly from the manufacturer website.

            • snapoff@sh.itjust.works
              2·
              11 days ago

              Oh man I don’t remember the orange toothpaste, but I remember when Crest had the orange mouthwash bc that was my jam.

    • superfes@lemmy.world
      5·
      12 days ago

      I love cinnamon, it’s so hard to find anymore, in contrast to your hatred, I wish they made more of it, but I also believe that they should be open to more flavors that aren’t just oriented toward children.

      • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
        2·
        12 days ago

        Huh. I see quite a few cinnamon options online, but I wouldn’t be surprised that it’s harder to find in physical stores. They really seem to be cutting back on options everywhere lately. I found a brand that I like, so I just order a few tubes at a time from their website.

    • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
      3·
      12 days ago

      Aquafresh Extreme or whatever has a citrusy taste with a hint of mint. I love it, but my fiance hates it. It’s called Mint Blast, but it’s so minty that it doesn’t taste minty to me.

      You might like it, or you might hate it with the fire of a thousand suns.

      • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
        1·
        11 days ago

        OMG, both “extreme” and “blast” in combination with the word “mint” make me feel very strongly that I’ll hate it! Haha. That whole “icy fresh” breath thing is so uncomfortable to me. When I’m done brushing my teeth, I just want my mouth to feel neutral.

    • Reyali@lemm.ee
      2·
      11 days ago

      I read your comment earlier today and then by chance was going to reorder toothpaste tonight, and I realized the kind of toothpaste I recently fell in love with has a citrus and a grape flavor, so I hunted down your comment to share with you!

      The toothpaste has both fluoride and hydroxyapatite, which helps rebuild enamel. Ever since I started using hydroxyapatite, my teeth have that “fresh from the dentist clean” feeling every time I brush them. I was using a Japanese brand of toothpaste for a few years because that’s the only place I found that kind of toothpaste, but it was fluoride free. Just one tube ago I found a brand that has both!

      The brand is Carifree, and this is the one I use.

      Looks like they also have citrus and grape mouthwash!

      • QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world
        2·
        11 days ago

        And I thought I was crazy when I paid $10 for a 6oz tube! Hahah. I do need a new dentist though, so I might just try one of the dentists near me that carries their stuff so I can grab a tube.

        • Reyali@lemm.ee
          2·
          11 days ago

          Yeah, I should have mentioned the price is pretty insane… I’d desensitized myself to it a bit because of the whole buying-Japanese-toothpaste thing wasn’t cheap, and now I just can’t stand not using hydroxyapatite for more than like a week, lol.

  • manucode@infosec.pub
    20·
    12 days ago

    Here in Germany, drinking water isn’t fluoridated but fluoridated salt is sold at every grocery store. I assume that fluoridated salt isn’t as easily available to those in the US who could now end up without fluoridated water, is it?

  • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
    19·
    11 days ago

    Just let the fuckers teeth fall out already. I am tired of so much effort being spent on people who clearly want to die. It is everything, from seatbelts to motorcycle helmets to vaccines to transfats to HFC drinks. They want to die? Let them. Maybe darwinism will save us from them maybe it won’t but at least we can all stop hearing about it.

    • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
      12·
      11 days ago

      …That’s a dangerous position to take.

      How many times do you think there have been positions that were generally accepted as being correct that were later found to be wrong? Things that we had evidence at the time that demonstrated they were a net positive, that later ended up being deeply flawed or outright incorrect?

      Your version of ‘freedom’ would also say that no person has freedom of religion, both because it contradicts science, and because religion can cause real harms to both physical and mental health.

      • Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de
        6·
        11 days ago

        I have not made any statement about a general definition of freedom. My position was solely focused on the uneducated instrumentalization of the concept of freedom with regard to the scientifically recognized use of fluoride to improve the dental health of the population.

      • PopcornTin@lemmy.world
        4·
        11 days ago

        As we’ve seen in the last few years, you can find experts to say whatever you need. That’ll have a longer lasting effect on the public’s psyche than anything.

        • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
          1·
          7 days ago

          “Worse” is a value judgement rather than anything objective. People that like tinfoil headwear accessories would say that putting fluoride in the drinking water makes their lives “worse”. So where does that leave you?

        • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
          3·
          11 days ago

          I disagree with them as well for different reasons but me not taking care of my teeth also doesn’t make yours fall out

          • Red_October@lemmy.world
            8·
            11 days ago

            You can do whatever you want to your teeth and you’re correct that it doesn’t effect me, but this isn’t a discussion about individual action or inaction. This is about what happens with the public water supply, which effects the entire public. That’s why his comment about “mandated exercise” is wrong. You not brushing your teeth doesn’t effect me, but removing the fluoridation from my water does.

            • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
              2·
              11 days ago

              I agree with you that its not about individual action, I was just saying your argument was kind of a non-sequitur. It was a hypothetical, so it’s more like if exercise was already mandated and the argument was to take it away. In this metaphor you would be arguing in favor of the mandated exercise, just like you’re arguing for fluoride, because you wouldn’t get enough exercise without it.

              Whatever, it’s early, maybe I’m not making much sense. I wasn’t trying to start anything. I’m more or less undecided on the whole fluoride thing.