U.S. Senate Republicans moved to block a ban on assault-style weapons put forward by Democrats on Wednesday, as the United States recorded the highest number of mass shootings for the second year in a row.
I support the 2nd. I also support single payer healthcare, including dental coverage and expanded mental Healthcare services. Then again, I dont support Republicans.
If dems got off the 2A stuff they would get more voters ::cough cough:: Texas. I know people that are like yeah abortion is not a deal breaker for me but guns are. Mostly people who are too old to have kids anyway.
I’m sure Mass shooting will go down once we have social nets to get people the help they need. Guns are like Cars. Fine when used by responsible adults baaaad otherwise.
No one does these things because they have happy content lives.
That’s downright fantasy talk. Voters minds have been so poisoned that they don’t give a shit about policy anymore. Republican politicians haven’t had an actual platform for at least a decade.
Their platform is only to stimie any progress and protect the rich. They may say lots of words but one need only look at the way they vote and yet are still consistently reelected.
They say they’ll fix things but never do even when they control both houses and the presidency. That should have been a republican free for all in 2016, but nothing of value happened for those two years. No immigration reform. No healthcare reform. No gun reform. Oh, but they did pass a tax reform bill and guess who that helped.
My rant illustrated my point, yes, but I don’t think it’s the gotcha that you seem to think it is.
My point is that people are voting for politicians who are actively working against many of their constituents interests. And they’re tending to vote that way because they believe politicians’ words instead of observing their actions.
If you care to refute any of my points, feel free.
One problem was that the CDC was banned from studying the causes of gun violence from 1997 until 2018 due to the Dickey Amendment. We should have had big studies done to see just what the problems were (I’m sure it’s not just one) and what solutions might give the best results while infringing on people’s rights the least. Instead, even studying why gun violence was a problem was banned.
Thankfully, the Dickey Amendment was clarified (but not repealed) and gun violence research is allowed. Still, the studies aren’t allowed to call for gun control so they are still hobbled. So while new proposals based on studies can be made, gun control won’t be one of them even if it would be effective.
Our leadership has time and time again daid it’s mental health, they know it. No research is needed.
Just expand mental Healthcare before the Joker movie becomes a reality.
No they where not, they weren’t ever banned from studying gun violence. They just weren’t allowed to use it as a way to sway public opinion…which is what the, at the time, acting leadership of the CDC wanted to do.
Watching beto shoot himself in the foot with the gun grabbing line should have been a bigger indicator. Theres plenty of room for pro 2a dems and dems with complex views on the issue. Gun ownership is rising in both parties, dems faster than republicans. Dems cant pass laws even if they win, they can’t afford to do stupid no chance moves that cost them seats.
I support legal safe gun ownership, usage, and training. I believe the second amendment doesn’t apply anymore though. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…” This is not true anymore. It was written in a time where standing professional armies weren’t the norm by people who never expected the US to reach a state to have one.
Gun ownership should be protected by the 9th amendment to an extent though, as abortion and all of our other traditionally held rights are.
Very well could be true, which is part of why I don’t mind (and appreciate when done properly) gun ownership. That doesn’t change the fact that the wording of the second amendment is for something that isn’t true anymore. Again, your rights are (or should be at least) protected by the 9th, which is much more important but most people haven’t even heard of.
The basis of the 2nd is just not true anymore. It’s like saying “physical currency, being necessary for the purchase of items, the right to possess coins shall not be infringed.” It doesn’t take into account the changes that may occur. We don’t need militias to protect the nation anymore, since we have a professional army, and we don’t need physical currency anymore, because most people don’t use it now anyway.
I mean, when you’re talking about, essentially, “Hey just to be safe we’re going to permanently remove one of your constitutional rights without due process.” then it’s a no-go for me.
Imagine if anyone arrested just for being present at a protest that turned violent, whether that individual was violent or not…or even just made a social media post that they agreed with the protestors…well sorry, but just to be safe, we’re going to revoke your first amendment right to assembly for the rest of your life.
Erring on the side of caution, you know. Never can tell when those peaceful assemblies might turn violent and you’ve already shown a risk factor.
If you stand there telling people to go kill those guys, then you will be arrested and won’t be protected by the first amendment.
And the second amendment, until very recently (Heller 2008) and depending on which fucking commas you want to recognize, started with “A well regulated Militia (capitalized)” and even then the Supreme court said there can be exceptions to personal possession. Though the current joke of a court would probably put their dicks in that decision as well now.
This is a mix of the composition /division fallacy, slippery slope and the false cause fallacy.
False cause draws a comparison between two things that are not nessisarily connected. Constitutional gun rights and freedom of speech and association. There are a lot of countries where gun rights are non-constitutional that still have freedom of speech and freedom of association. Not all federal law is constitutional and there are a lot of freedoms and protections only actually protected beyond constitutional law.
The slippery slope is more well known. In this case it’s sketching out a senario that could have plenty of other possibilities. If gun ownership had limitations they wouldn’t nessisarily be each of the limitations mentioned here. It assumes no protections for this kind of thing would be in place despite an increasing world wide stance that this sort of thing is a violation of human rights.
The composition /division fallacy - that one part of something has to be applied to all or that the whole must apply to its parts. That if one part of the Constitution is rethought as an unnessisary and even harmful thing that the entire document will be treated that way.
There are a lot of countries which have rethought their rights charters and constitutional documents and updated them to suit a changing world. The US Constitution is particularly paranoid because it was written during a period when it represented a rather large democratic experiment that seemed incredibly tenuous. They even still modeled the President off of a King because Monarchy was still very much the norm and there wasn’t a lot of examples of government that didn’t just change who was the king. Not a hundred years prior England had decapitated their king, essentially replaced him with a guy who was basically a king for life in all but name and reverted to a constitutional Monarchy the second he died. It made sense to be paranoid that everything they worked for was temporary and needed to be protected with a show of force. Since then democracy has spread to become the majority system of government and variations on the 2nd Amendment are incredibly rare. Only Mexico, Guatemala and the US has constitutional gun rights. By contrast Freedom of Speech is granted protections by International Law, is considered a corner stone of Human rights and around 150 countries have freedom of speech protections. One of these things is not like the other.
A constitution is not a document that you never change. That’s just another fallacy - an appeal to tradition. The US has removed bits of it before too, you get to drink alcohol because somebody rethought your 18th amendment. Your freedom of speech rights aren’t going anywhere. Nobody wants that.
It’s really okay. You can put the guns down. Most of the world has.
I’m really happy with the level headed reasoning in this post and the replies. Feels like I’m not alone in thinking “gun bans are stupid” and “can’t we address systemically WHY people feel the need to flame out in a blaze of violence, to reduce violence?”
Also BTW there’s a “Socialist Rifle Association”, and I might not agree with them on 100% everything obviously, I just think it’s cool and they seem alright.
GOP: Gentlemen Gentlemen this is a mental health issue which is we can’t ban 2A rights.
Everyone: Ok then give us better mental health?
GOP: Nope that’s commie talk. Just get Jesus. (Also shocked why people hate them)
I support the 2nd. I also support single payer healthcare, including dental coverage and expanded mental Healthcare services. Then again, I dont support Republicans.
If dems got off the 2A stuff they would get more voters ::cough cough:: Texas. I know people that are like yeah abortion is not a deal breaker for me but guns are. Mostly people who are too old to have kids anyway. I’m sure Mass shooting will go down once we have social nets to get people the help they need. Guns are like Cars. Fine when used by responsible adults baaaad otherwise. No one does these things because they have happy content lives.
If Dems focused on what actually would curb the violence, and dropped guns. They’d sweep the elections for decades.
That’s downright fantasy talk. Voters minds have been so poisoned that they don’t give a shit about policy anymore. Republican politicians haven’t had an actual platform for at least a decade.
Their platform is only to stimie any progress and protect the rich. They may say lots of words but one need only look at the way they vote and yet are still consistently reelected.
They say they’ll fix things but never do even when they control both houses and the presidency. That should have been a republican free for all in 2016, but nothing of value happened for those two years. No immigration reform. No healthcare reform. No gun reform. Oh, but they did pass a tax reform bill and guess who that helped.
You said voters minds have been poisoned … … then went on a they they they rant proving your point. You get that, right?
My rant illustrated my point, yes, but I don’t think it’s the gotcha that you seem to think it is.
My point is that people are voting for politicians who are actively working against many of their constituents interests. And they’re tending to vote that way because they believe politicians’ words instead of observing their actions.
If you care to refute any of my points, feel free.
Yeah this is how people get jaded or gets the conspiracy people out.
One problem was that the CDC was banned from studying the causes of gun violence from 1997 until 2018 due to the Dickey Amendment. We should have had big studies done to see just what the problems were (I’m sure it’s not just one) and what solutions might give the best results while infringing on people’s rights the least. Instead, even studying why gun violence was a problem was banned.
Thankfully, the Dickey Amendment was clarified (but not repealed) and gun violence research is allowed. Still, the studies aren’t allowed to call for gun control so they are still hobbled. So while new proposals based on studies can be made, gun control won’t be one of them even if it would be effective.
Our leadership has time and time again daid it’s mental health, they know it. No research is needed. Just expand mental Healthcare before the Joker movie becomes a reality.
No they where not, they weren’t ever banned from studying gun violence. They just weren’t allowed to use it as a way to sway public opinion…which is what the, at the time, acting leadership of the CDC wanted to do.
Watching beto shoot himself in the foot with the gun grabbing line should have been a bigger indicator. Theres plenty of room for pro 2a dems and dems with complex views on the issue. Gun ownership is rising in both parties, dems faster than republicans. Dems cant pass laws even if they win, they can’t afford to do stupid no chance moves that cost them seats.
Yesbabsolutely. They’d win the nation if they dropped the anti gun platform.
I support legal safe gun ownership, usage, and training. I believe the second amendment doesn’t apply anymore though. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…” This is not true anymore. It was written in a time where standing professional armies weren’t the norm by people who never expected the US to reach a state to have one.
Gun ownership should be protected by the 9th amendment to an extent though, as abortion and all of our other traditionally held rights are.
certainly looks like you would need to protect yourself against a soon-to-be dictatorship though
Very well could be true, which is part of why I don’t mind (and appreciate when done properly) gun ownership. That doesn’t change the fact that the wording of the second amendment is for something that isn’t true anymore. Again, your rights are (or should be at least) protected by the 9th, which is much more important but most people haven’t even heard of.
The basis of the 2nd is just not true anymore. It’s like saying “physical currency, being necessary for the purchase of items, the right to possess coins shall not be infringed.” It doesn’t take into account the changes that may occur. We don’t need militias to protect the nation anymore, since we have a professional army, and we don’t need physical currency anymore, because most people don’t use it now anyway.
Kinda funny actually, since we’re starting to see a movement that looks to effectively ban physical currency by making it a headache.
Same motivation: surveillance and control.
Same, well said
deleted by creator
Call me crazy, but maybe erring on the side of caution makes sense when we’re talking about the right to own tools designed to kill things.
I mean, when you’re talking about, essentially, “Hey just to be safe we’re going to permanently remove one of your constitutional rights without due process.” then it’s a no-go for me.
Imagine if anyone arrested just for being present at a protest that turned violent, whether that individual was violent or not…or even just made a social media post that they agreed with the protestors…well sorry, but just to be safe, we’re going to revoke your first amendment right to assembly for the rest of your life.
Erring on the side of caution, you know. Never can tell when those peaceful assemblies might turn violent and you’ve already shown a risk factor.
If you stand there telling people to go kill those guys, then you will be arrested and won’t be protected by the first amendment.
And the second amendment, until very recently (Heller 2008) and depending on which fucking commas you want to recognize, started with “A well regulated Militia (capitalized)” and even then the Supreme court said there can be exceptions to personal possession. Though the current joke of a court would probably put their dicks in that decision as well now.
This is a mix of the composition /division fallacy, slippery slope and the false cause fallacy.
False cause draws a comparison between two things that are not nessisarily connected. Constitutional gun rights and freedom of speech and association. There are a lot of countries where gun rights are non-constitutional that still have freedom of speech and freedom of association. Not all federal law is constitutional and there are a lot of freedoms and protections only actually protected beyond constitutional law.
The slippery slope is more well known. In this case it’s sketching out a senario that could have plenty of other possibilities. If gun ownership had limitations they wouldn’t nessisarily be each of the limitations mentioned here. It assumes no protections for this kind of thing would be in place despite an increasing world wide stance that this sort of thing is a violation of human rights.
The composition /division fallacy - that one part of something has to be applied to all or that the whole must apply to its parts. That if one part of the Constitution is rethought as an unnessisary and even harmful thing that the entire document will be treated that way.
There are a lot of countries which have rethought their rights charters and constitutional documents and updated them to suit a changing world. The US Constitution is particularly paranoid because it was written during a period when it represented a rather large democratic experiment that seemed incredibly tenuous. They even still modeled the President off of a King because Monarchy was still very much the norm and there wasn’t a lot of examples of government that didn’t just change who was the king. Not a hundred years prior England had decapitated their king, essentially replaced him with a guy who was basically a king for life in all but name and reverted to a constitutional Monarchy the second he died. It made sense to be paranoid that everything they worked for was temporary and needed to be protected with a show of force. Since then democracy has spread to become the majority system of government and variations on the 2nd Amendment are incredibly rare. Only Mexico, Guatemala and the US has constitutional gun rights. By contrast Freedom of Speech is granted protections by International Law, is considered a corner stone of Human rights and around 150 countries have freedom of speech protections. One of these things is not like the other.
A constitution is not a document that you never change. That’s just another fallacy - an appeal to tradition. The US has removed bits of it before too, you get to drink alcohol because somebody rethought your 18th amendment. Your freedom of speech rights aren’t going anywhere. Nobody wants that.
It’s really okay. You can put the guns down. Most of the world has.
deleted by creator
I’m really happy with the level headed reasoning in this post and the replies. Feels like I’m not alone in thinking “gun bans are stupid” and “can’t we address systemically WHY people feel the need to flame out in a blaze of violence, to reduce violence?”
Also BTW there’s a “Socialist Rifle Association”, and I might not agree with them on 100% everything obviously, I just think it’s cool and they seem alright.
100%