I am so so divided on if I should vote for biden or not. I wanna vote third party to at least do something or should I just stay home and protest and advocate where I can? Thoughts?

  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
    1·
    8 months ago

    No, I am busy working for campaigns for my city and state level government bodies.

    I’m going to vote down ticket for Democrats, I’m just not voting for Biden. What’s the difference?

    What have you done? Are you willing, or capable, to maybe take up arms to change things? Do you have any experience in life that would make you have some idea if you could? What have you done besides decide you are better than people for allowing these things to go on without challenge?

    I’m not willing to talk about that with a stranger on a public forum, but I’ve been busy with certain things that aren’t the next game of voteball.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        2·
        8 months ago

        I can’t help but notice you didn’t answer the more important question: I’m going to vote down ticket for Democrats, I’m just not voting for Biden. What’s the difference?

        Because as far as I can see, by your logic you’re donating to Trump and volunteering for Trump by choosing to not donate to Biden or volunteer for Biden.

        • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
          2·
          8 months ago

          I did answer your question, I am actively working where I have the most impact, and putting my vote where it will have the least shitty impact I have access to. If you need a more granular answer: What I do work for locally is undermining Trump’s, and his ilk’s, foundation. This happens by some of things I mentioned we have accomplished. By using Jordan’s proven past as a pedophile protector, while talking to people face to face, we have seen more people switch their vote than on any other piece of information we have records for. By getting progressive amendments written into the constitution we make it much harder for it to be over-turned. By going around showing people our efforts actually led to better legal structures for weed, abortion rights, the school system, the local economy, historic crime rates, and turned people away from the GOP, it is markedly encouraging people to vote. The more people who vote, the less likely the greater of two evils is elected.

          Voting straight ticket democrat means you are also voting for people who agree with biden on palastine. Not voting for the president is increasing the probability for trump, or someone worse, to get in office, instead of biden. If biden is still the democratic candidate, he will still be better than any of the republicans running against him. The majority of people don’t vote. People who are more aligned with the democrats are more likely not to vote than republicans. This is how people even worse than biden are an actual possibility. Even the republicans acknowledge that the more people that vote, the less likely they are to get elected.

          • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
            1·
            8 months ago

            But you didn’t answer the question, not really. You haven’t explained why voting for down ticket Dems and refusing to vote for Biden is any different from volunteering for down ticket Dems and refusing to volunteer for or donate to Biden (which is what you are doing).

            The result with the most harm reduction is a split government with Democrats in control of the Legislature, because if Trump was president Democrats would oppose Israel’s genocide. Under Biden even Bernie is refusing to endorse a ceasefire, but if Trump was president you know he and other Dems lining up under Biden would fight against Trump.

            • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
              2·
              8 months ago

              Because biden has massive money interest in his campaign, where as my local government office holders do not. I have finite time and resources, they have finite time and resources, I have a larger impact on them, they have a larger impact on me. All the money in the world is already going into the corporatist’s campaign to vi for my vote, and I am casting it. With the exception of interpersonal connections I am not going to change people’s mind about Biden because they are already inundated with campaign propaganda about him. Every time I have campaigned for a presidential candidate, one that has a chance of actually winning, I never got “oh, I didn’t know much, or anything, about them, I didn’t realize their positions, now I am going to consider this information” where as I get that pretty often with local candidates. So, my vote goes to the tally of the lesser evil, my campaigning subjects are better served by my time, and their exposure supports the president ultimately as well.

              Where as you do nothing in support of Biden, while doing something that is well understood to actually benefit his, worse, competitors. This is the difference. Your actions benefit the trumps out there, mine support their detractors at that level.

              “The result with the most harm reduction is a split government with Democrats in control of the Legislature, because if Trump was president Democrats would oppose Israel’s genocide.”

              Do you actually believe this? If you do, I am sorry to inform you, that you are wrong. One of the handful of things both the GOP and the DNC are in hard agreement on is Israel. Those running against Biden for the GOP are not discussing how they wouldn’t support such a horrific act, they are discussing how he isn’t doing enough. Even when trump, and bush, and daddy bush, etc. were thumping for Israel, the DNC was right their going “uh-huh, yup, no, I agree, yes, of course.” They might make some small grandstanding about how, while they totally support isreal’s right to defend it’s self, maybe the GOP is a little much, while they try to crush the voices of anyone who disagrees in their party, just like now. The DNC and the GOP are both pro destabilizing other countries who don’t bow to our trade, they are both pro indiscriminate killing of people in countries who spurn our trade, they are both willing to slaughter innocent people for corporate profits. The DNC, being a more varied party, has a larger number of detractors, and their base, being more varied, has a large number of detractors, so there is room to wedge open a change against supporting these things. That is the only thing that might make the democrats “better” in this situation.

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                1·
                8 months ago

                I have a larger impact on them, they have a larger impact on me.

                Now hold on! My one vote has very little impact on an election with millions of voters, so by the same logic it doesn’t even matter if I vote in the first place. By the same logic, I’m focusing my votes where they actually matter in local elections and not bothering with the presidential election. Same as you. There is zero difference, you just want to have your cake and eat it too.

                One of the handful of things both the GOP and the DNC are in hard agreement on is Israel.

                And yet the DNC was opposed to Trump moving the US embassy to Israel. Did you forget?

                The DNC and the GOP are both pro destabilizing other countries who don’t bow to our trade, they are both pro indiscriminate killing of people in countries who spurn our trade, they are both willing to slaughter innocent people for corporate profits.

                And yet the GOP is disrupting the war in Ukraine. Partisanship is actually a useful tool to hinder the empire. You can’t ignore this.

                • Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world
                  2·
                  8 months ago

                  Now you are just stretching to keep your argument seeming sound.

                  I do both, so I acknowledge they are both worth doing, you are the one who is not. When we had Obama running I actually did work for him because he made the pr move to use mostly grass roots initiatives because it looked great for him, and he didn’t need to get the massive corporate campaign sponsors. Not so much for his re-election though.

                  The DNC opposed the GOP moving the embassy to Jerusalem, we already had one in Israel. They didn’t do this to spite the GOP, nor because they do not support Israel, they did it because it’s stupid to move the embassy away from the most important political location in the country to a place simply to pander to the second coming crowd. That is what it was too, pandering on the part of the GOP to their base, the actual politicians running the show didn’t actually give a shit. The reasoning was completely different and would not apply to israel massacring palastinians due to a hammas attack.

                  The GOP wants to disrupt the war in Ukraine because they are in bed with russia, ukraine kicked the russian puppet GOP operatives helped to install out, and they don’t have as strong of business ties there. So they are picking the country they get the most money from. Which, again, is different than what would happen in israel.

                  Partisanship is a useful tool for confounding empire, but the situation with helping israel bomb brown people that continually buck US hegemony is not a point of contention that can be used in this way.

                  Even when the GOP was raising it’s hackles, in public, about obama attacking libya, they actually did nothing to stop it. They let it happen because knocking down a country that was refusing to cooperate with the petrodollar was in their interest. So they himmed and hawed on cspan and fox but did nothing to actually disrupt it.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                    2·
                    8 months ago

                    I do both, so I acknowledge they are both worth doing, you are the one who is not.

                    No you don’t. You have said it yourself, you don’t donate to Biden or volunteer for his campaign.

                    There’s literally no difference, again, you just want to have your cake and eat it too. I refuse. No ceasefire, no votes. It’s literally the only leverage I have on this administration and you want me to just give it up because orange man bad. If things look bad enough, Biden actually might relent on this. We have to pressure him until he cracks, and kick him if he doesn’t.

                    Partisanship is a useful tool for confounding empire, but the situation with helping israel bomb brown people that continually buck US hegemony is not a point of contention that can be used in this way.

                    There are Democrats right now who are calling for a ceasefire, I guarantee if Trump was president that the vast majority of Democrats would join them in the same demand. Bernie certainly would, instead of the weak lib shit he’s doing now. You want to cynically wave this off, but I’m convinced that the public unrest under Trump would be high enough to force even Zionist Democrats to endorse a ceasefire. This can have lasting impacts on the electorate too:

                    Even when the GOP was raising it’s hackles, in public, about obama attacking libya, they actually did nothing to stop it. They let it happen because knocking down a country that was refusing to cooperate with the petrodollar was in their interest. So they himmed and hawed on cspan and fox but did nothing to actually disrupt it.

                    The consequence of the GOP raising its hackles is they riled up their base, and this eventually lead to Trump and the current extremism in their Party. This, in turn, amplified partisanship to such an extent that now the GOP can’t even govern without eating themselves alive to own the libs. Hyper-partisanship is now the norm for their Party. Trump has had a lasting impact on Republicans. I’m willing to bet that a second Trump term would radicalize Democrats too, and then we might actually fucking get somewhere.

                    No ceasefire, no votes. It’s not an unreasonable demand. If that means Trump wins then, silver lining, Democrats might actually grow a spine again.