- cross-posted to:
- marvelspoilers
- cross-posted to:
- marvelspoilers
This fall, The Marvels take flight.Carol Danvers aka Captain Marvel has reclaimed her identity from the tyrannical Kree and taken revenge on the Supreme Inte…
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I haven’t watched a Marvel movie in ages.
I was excited for what they were going to do after Endgame as I really thought they were going to take things to another level, but ultimately each one feels like the same movie to me at this point.
They suffer from the same issue that every movie/show faces; needing mass appeal, following the same formula, and being afraid to have anything definitive happen.
The last bothers me the most. If I’m watching a show and a character dies, I barely react at this point; I just wonder how long until they’re back.
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I would encourage you to watch the spider-verse movies, Loki, and “What If?” simply because they’re quite novel and entertaining. They break the mold.
The spider-verse movies and the Loki series are great examples of how good superhero movies could be if they tried.
I just don’t see a way to top the build up and ending to Endgame. A decade of movies with great actors, fun action all leading up to the huge gut punch of Infinity War and the absolute spectacle of Endgame.
After you reach that high, building up again from step one is extremely difficult. And the movies just aren’t of the same quality. Besides a few good movies like No Way Home and Black Panther 2 and a few shows with strong starts or premises like Wandavision and Loki, they’ve all been very mid.
I’m not a comic book reader, but from what I’ve heard the characters never dying permanently is a common theme, so at least there’s a precedent
It’s a common sci fi / fantasy trope, which a lot of these stories are. When you have beloved characters, and they’re in a world of magic and advanced technology, it’s really tempting to use the magic and technology to bring the beloved characters back.
Example - Star Trek. Spock, Kirk, Data, Picard, etc. They’ve all be resurrected at some point.
Yeh the multiverse completely ruined the marvel cinematic universe. I get why they did it, but I think it was a terrible decision. It’s not really a coincidence that almost every movie since they introduced it has flopped.
As you said, it just takes away any and all shock and drama. Oh spider man got turned to dust and died? Strange because we know he has a solo movie set after endgame coming out a few months after it, so I guess he isn’t dead.
Not to mention that the movies are all now just basically filmed entirely on a green screen, while having worse and worse CGI.
The overuse of death tropes was exactly why I left.
Infinity War
spoiler
hit me with a double whammy. It pulled the curtain to show that it was actually part one of a two parter. Also, it pulled the “death is reversible” card - both the death and the immediate promise of reversal - on half the galaxy’s population.
I feel like even if a comic got away with such things, it’s almost better to ask if the movies are a time to revisit those tropes.
They did kill off Iron Man, Captain America, and Black Widow though. Also, wasn’t it known beforehand that it was a 2 parter?
You’re forgetting Loki. Don’t worry, he’s okay though! And Vision. Don’t worry, he’s back for Wandavision!
And, even with Black Widow dead, thankfully they can make a prequel movie!
Just to age myself a bit: One thing that I really liked about Aeris’ death in FF7 is: There’s no dying speech. There’s no ghostly message from beyond the grave. You don’t even really get to see her face in wistful memories. Everything about that character is completely ”ended” from the media the moment Sephiroth strikes her. Post-launch media tended to ruin this, but at the time it was an important treatment of death to make it impactful.
We all know magic like prequels, time travel, Lazarus pits, cloning, etc, can bring back dead people. That usually misses the point because death in media is usually meant to hold an emotional power that relates to its certainty - it’s not specifically reliant on logic.
Another death that was so “final” that has always stuck out to me was in the terminator show, “the Sarah Connor chronicles” when Reese, one of the 3 main characters, just gets shot in the back as the characters are all making their escape from a regular terminator situation. The other characters look back but have to keep running because otherwise they will get shot too, and ……that’s it. He’s dead. No speech, no drawn out death scene, no elaborate over the top death with foreshadowing - he just gets shot and he’s dead.
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I really tried on the Ms. Marvel series but it was not for me and I knew it by the second episode, and Captain Marvel was one of the most formulaic, underbaked films of that Phase. Maybe it is just because Guardians being done means whatever strong investments I once had in the MCU are fading away because it’s all just too much of the same, but really nothing that screams out to me that this will be enjoyable though I will ultimately see it (a couple friends and I see every MCU movie despite most of us being super burnt out)
I thought Ms. Marvel was one of the better things that they’ve done post-Endgame. I liked the Spider-man “neighborhood superhero” vibes in the first half, I liked the themes of a child of diaspora reconnecting with their heritage but still needing to recontextualize it, and Iman Vellani is a god-damn treasure when, as here, she’s properly cast. The “hard-light” powers and visuals were a decent enough riff on the “embiggening” power from the comics without asking the audience to accept Stretch Armstrong as a major superhero (Good luck, Mr. Fantastic).
Still had underbaked villains, needless save-the-universe brinksmanship, and some of the flair from the first couple of episodes eroded into Marvel formulas, but overall I enjoyed it.
Same here here. I loved the Ms Marvel series and didn’t hate the Captain Marvel film.
I really loved all of the MCU content and was extremely satisfied when Thanos was defeated in Endgame. Since then, I have enjoyed watching the movies that tie up the loose ends from Endgame; I.E. Loki, GOTG 2, and the Spidermans. Everything other than that has made me feel like Marvel is struggling for air.
I don’t care for the heroes they are making shows and movies about. There’s none of that gritty, high stakes feel or compelling character development.
Formulating the shows to 6 episodes really ruined it.
And the shows only exist to introduce a new character for the next movies, meaning if you only watch the movies it’s just a bunch of characters appearing and everyone acting like they’ve been around forever and you’re supposed to know who they are.
Yeah, feels lame.
The Cap Marvel film felt like a phase 1 film, like if Thor didn’t have Loki. Yeah, they laid the groundwork and all, but other than Iron Man 1 and maybe Cap America they were pretty eh.
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Seems like it will be a fun one to take the kids to. I wonder what will happen if Kamala gets her hands on the bracelet the Big Bad has. She has its twin on.
Something about her grandmother in a parallel universe, i think? it’s been a while since I watched the show.
Same here lol. I think that’s how it goes, or in the past.
in a parallel universe and in the past! during the Pakistan/India partition! it’s like the writers were like, “so is it time travel or the multiverse?” and they just did both.
How many TV shows have I got to watch for this to make sense this time?
Not serious answer: All of it. Including both Hulks.
Serious answer: Ms Marvel is probably all you need. The characters are not too deep and if you hate Ms Marvel you probably wont like this.
The trailer explains pretty much the whole premise right there. Each of them has powers (who cares where they came from?), and they’re all entangled so they swap places when they use them.
If you want deeper backstory, the upside is that the two shows that contain it are among the best shows Marvel has done so far.
Oh good, the official trailer.
I was upset with the non-official trailer Marvel out out before that told me the whole plot of the movie. Glad I have this one to correct that.
Seriously I hate the “teaser” trailers. Just call it trailer 1 you jackasses.
I remember when trailers had the entire movie in them, Air Force One comes to mind.
The entanglement aspect looks like a clever plot device, but I don’t know how they are going to get the audience to care about Captain Marvel. The first movie really undercut our ability to care about this character. She was just a Mary Sue for the entire movie. We never see her struggle or grow. She’s always just perfect at everything. It keeps her character unrelatable.
Anything related to Capt. Marvel I’m having a hard time caring about. Secret Invasion has been a giant flop for me and I particularly think how the Skrulls were brought into the MCU via Capt. Marvel was just kind of dumb and it’s creating this weird jarring effect where we’re supposed to be sympathetic towards them, but they’re the bad guys and it’s just creating this mismatch where I feel nothing towards any of it. I get having sympathetic bad guys, but the way it was handled all felt very clumsy and rushed. Just terrible writing on top of everything.
If anything, the Skrull threat should’ve been unresolved in Capt. Marvel (not make them suddenly our friends), like that movie should have been the set-up for Secret Invasion and they should have been seeding stuff here and there for it throughout Phase 4, letting things come to a head in Secret Invasion. Obviously that still would’ve been weird, given that it took place in-between Infinity War and Endgame, but that was always going to be the case unless they had tied the movie in more with the Infinity saga (apart from her just getting her powers from an infinity stone or whatever happened).
I had avoided Ms. Marvel because I just don’t care about the character, though I’ll probably binge it in the next week before I cancel my D+ subscription after Secret Invasion ends, just to say I’ve watched it. Hopefully going in with low expectations will somehow make it better.
I’ve honestly been enjoying Secret Invasion so far. The plot has some issues, but not enough to pull me out of the enjoyment. I’d call it probably my third or fourth favorite Marvel D+ show so far.
In episode 5, right after an assassination attempt on the President of the United States was foiled, Nick Fury, a disheveled-looking black guy who was just fired by the US govt, pulls a gun on one of the President’s senior aides in the very same hospital where the President is recuperating (probably right outside his room), assaults the aide, then starts walking away. A platoon of Secret Service agents appear out of nowhere (from the same hallway they had just been in), all pointing guns at Fury and… they just let him walk away. Obviously, this is a comic book tv show with shapeshifting aliens and super powers and all that, but I can only suspend my disbelief so much. And why wouldn’t Fury have just shot and/or killed fauxRhodey at that point to reveal him/her as a Skrull? The only leverage they had on him was that video, which they were releasing anyways, wouldn’t revealing a shapeshifting alien help his case that it wasn’t him and that aliens are trying to start WW3? They have Olivia Colman do this EXACT thing when she literally shoots the Director of MI6, this series is just so scatter-brained.
And the goddamned scene in the graveyard. Like Fury purposely hides his stash in different compartments throughout all of these fake graves? “I need to have my eye patch over here, my gun over here, and a cool leather jacket in this one. Can’t put all my eggs in one basket, then I’d be totally screwed out of my dramatic ‘suiting up’ scene.” And what was the point of the eye patch or not having the eye patch the whole series? Literally everybody knows who he is, he’s not hiding from anybody, but oh, he’s got his eye patch on now, so Fury is back! Capt. Marvel even ruined the reason for Fury’s eye patch.
There’s just so much lazy writing in the whole series that’s on par with some of the worst from Game of Thrones, things just happen purely for the convenience of the plot to get characters from point A to point B or to “tell” the audience something, it’s just so transparent and infuriating.
I had to skip this message since I realized I hadn’t watched this episode yet.
Your big points are true. Fury probably didn’t kill Rhodey then because he knew the Secret Service would immediately shoot him making the reveal pointless but it doesn’t help the fact that it is contrived. Especially since Rhodey was acting sus as hell the whole time anyway. And I guess you could also argue Fury was given the latitude he was because he’s THE spymaster who brought together the team that saved the world on multiple occasions and the universe once but the idea that the US government would let him stay outside the president’s room with a gun is hard to swallow.
And the suit up sequence had me thinking the exact same thing. I was expecting those different compartments to maybe have the different Avengers’ DNA, but nope just clothes and a gun. That did get a snort from me.
And there’s more. Like how Varra and Giah managed to fight off a Skrull hit squad despite being caught off guard and not being combatants in the first place, like how the assault team weren’t Super Skrulls and even like Sonya being caught off guard by Rhodey being a Skrull didn’t make any sense.
But the episode was still good to me. Maybe I’m just more willing to suspend disbelief. The whole premise of a Skrull invasion requires it, as does Fury not calling in even the regular Avengers like Captain America.
What I want from Marvel more than anything is a series similar in tone to this one, but one that goes more in-depth on the world. Make these things make sense, explain how the non-super powered world operates in a universe where aliens, monsters and gods exist and it wouldn’t be so jarring.
But then again, this is the series that has contradicted its own rules of time travel multiple times and even set up character growth arcs in one movie like Thor Ragnarok just to undo them in Infinity War and then Thor Love and Thunder.
She seems more likeable here, but I doubt she’ll be the main character.
I actually really enjoyed Ms. Marvel. I’m a SA first gen from Queens and it was incredibly relatable and actually taught me a few things even I didn’t know about the partition. The actress is very charismatic and likable as well. The supporting cast complimented the show (the dad is MVP). My only real complaints are her powers just being very… boring lol. Hopefully they expand on that in the movie.
Her powers were supposed to be really different I was so bummed that they changed it to some weird light power thing and I guess it was neat that it was connected to her culture but personally I liked the alien origin more. I feel like there needs to be a balance between using a characters culture and using pop culture and I feel like they did too much. The comic books did it much better imo.
I absolutely love the actress who plays her though she’s great and her energy and enthusiasm is infectious.
With Guardians 3, I’ve now gotten everything I wanted from the MCU. If they manage to get things back on track I’d be game to catch up but my hopes aren’t high. While flashy, there’s nothing here that doesn’t look like the same old MCU.
As a big fan of the Marvel Cosmic comics, I am really sad we didn’t get to see Nova Prime - though Fillion being in Guardians 3 was supposedly a nod to that
Look y’all, I’m just here to be entertained. On that level I haven’t been disappointed by a Marvel movie yet.
You want something deeper? Maybe comic book movies aren’t for you anymore, and that’s okay.
Is wanting something deeper whilst also wanting to be entertained not a thing?
That’s fine too. Just don’t go in with such high expectations, and certainly don’t judge the thing before you’ve even seen it.
Look y’all, I’m just here to be entertained. On that level I haven’t been disappointed by a MyLittlePony movie yet.
You want something deeper? Maybe philosophical, highbrow movies about ponies aren’t for you.
That’s the spirit! Like what you like.
I’m excited to see Kamala again because while it wasn’t really my demographic the Ms. Marvel show was pretty good. But I’m still underwhelmed by Brie Larson as Captain Marvel.
It looks like the villain is Dar-Ben which is kinda a second-rate Ronan by my understanding.
Just from the preview I have no inclination that anything is really at stake. Three super powered heroes, one of which has a reputation throughout the galaxy. What’s at stake? There’s a throwaway line about destroying worlds but that’s not really stakes when the viewer knows there won’t be any “Snap/Blip” event because that kinda of thing they’d save for a Avengers movie.
I wasn’t excited for this movie until now. I hope the body swapping shenanigans are for the whole movie and not just like 10 minutes, because crazy teleporting action scenes is where it’s at.
I’ve heard it’s been through two rounds of test screenings that both went really well, which is why I have some hope. The versions played in the test screenings aren’t the final version though…
I just watched the Jujutsu Kaisen fight (anime) where two characters swap their bodies while clapping, I’m in for more tag teams like this!
I feel the opposite, heh. I feel like it’s a fun gimmick that’ll make things too disjointed and hard to follow. But i bet it’ll last until the end of the second act, or middle of the third, and they’ll get their powers back just in time to fuck up the big bad.
So happy to see Marvel is advertising on Lemmy instead of Reddit now!!!
We are actually growing!
Looks looks a fun popcorn movie. Still haven’t watched the Ms Marvel series, though. Wonder if the backstory will be that important.
The worst part about that trailer, in my opinion, was the massacre of the Beastie Boys for that crappy remix. (Side note: didn’t MCA forbid use of Beastie Boys music in ads in his will when he passed?)
The Ms Marvel show was a fun watch, but like all things Marvel its all played very safe. If you have time to kill, you could do worse.
The first few episodes were fun and character-driven. Then the show remembered it was an MCU show, so they introduced a half-baked villain so they can have a bad CGI final battle.
Looks looks a fun popcorn movie.
Ah, yes. The code word for “it’s gonna suck balls”.
As opposed to actual fun popcorn movies like Guardians or Ragnarok that never get called that.
That’s an avoid for me. Marvel and DC were fun and entertaining when they first came on the film scene, but now they’re just movie mills rehashing the same old slop. Box office performance indicates I’m not the only one who feels that way. But nothing against people who like their stuff, I’m just done with it, like listening to the same old song too many times.
I don’t think the rehashing is the problem, but the world building. When MCU started out it was just a bunch of dudes who can punch a little stronger than the average guy or wore a special suit. Nowadays the MCU is three layers deep into multiverse, quantum realms and time travel magic and has heroes that can reshape reality. It’s very hard to care about anything when literally anything can happen and nothing follows even remotely consistent rules. Even within the same series they f’ things up beyond believe. Remember when quantum realm was this spooky thing of indeterminism? Nowadays it’s full of regular people, cities and looks no different than any other alien planet.
When the MCU stays more grounded it is still watchable, e.g. No Way Home had plenty of good or even great moments, but if you try to figure out how the multiverse logic of that movie works or how to reconcile it with everything that came after, it’s a complete unfixable mess. Also doesn’t help that they can’t follow their own setups (Thor joins the Guardians… for 5mins).
