I’m getting tired of being the household beast of burden. Last night I decided to try and make just ONE damned chore in the house equitable. I assigned one kid to empty the dishwasher, the other to fill it, and my husband to wash whatever large items wouldn’t fit in the dishwasher. We discussed it. He agreed it was fair. I HATE a dirty kitchen and can’t cook when it’s filthy and I’m tired of doing all the cleanup before slaving away at the stove and then repeating.
Spoiler: he did not wash the dishes. He played video games and then went to bed. I washed them this morning.
I was mildly annoyed (read this happens constantly so I’m used to it) and told him just now that since I washed those dishes, could he please put them away. He’s doing that now, but his response has me fucking fuming.
“Why wouldn’t you just wait until I washed them? Why did you HAVE to do the dishes just to make me feel bad about it?”
I was mildly annoyed before and now I’m just fucking furious. He has no idea why I would even consider that manipulative. I’m so mad right now I can’t even find the words to productively explain to him why that statement was so offside.
Help me, sisters. I can’t even find the words.
I’m not a woman, but I have dealt with this kind of behavior before. The best advice I can give is next time everything is left dirty just go get yourself something to eat and if someone asks where dinner is point out that you can’t cook anything in a filthy kitchen and just leave it at that. It’s worked with roommates I’ve had in the past.
I have tried this. Unfortunately when you run a house, things need doing, whether you want to do them or not. So although in principal this makes sense, in the end it just makes more work for the person who is running the house. I have two kids that need to eat. Hell, I want to bloody well eat. Why should we all live in filth so that his ego isn’t bruised when I point out he didn’t do his very minuscule bit ?
This would work with roommates though.
Could you… throw ^the ^^man ^^^away?
Sometimes I wish I could. Last week I told him I love him but I hate being married to him. He sulked for a day and got over it. I’m not over it.
I’m sorry to hear that hun
Running a household with family and children, small and large, is not like a house with roommates learning to be real humans. Shit needs doing and petty passive aggressive games are unproductive despite how cathartic they feel on paper. Good way to ferment resentment and drive a wedge between family though.
Oh no! 😲
You really got me 😭😭😭
Fucked up my whole day man 😰
I’m going to take those words to heart and really rethink all my life choices 😉😉😉
You’re sage wisdom will not go unnoticed 🤓
🤡
You’re fucking toxic.
Oh my god! 😱😱😱
You mean to tell me that some asshole on Lemmy thinks I’m TOXIC?!?!? ☣️
I’m truly devastated 💔
Please excuse me, I think I’m going to be sick from the grief 🤢🤢🤢🤮
I’m not a woman either, but I’m a man struggling with ADHD, I have similar experiences with dirty dishes (and other things). It’s so difficult to remember to do things you have agreed to do and even if you do remember it can be impossible to get started, unless you have figured out a system that works for you.
If someone at work asks me to look something up or do something and they say that I can do it whenever I have time, it’s never going to get done, I need some sort of deadline to be able to start (usually as close as possible to the deadline).
I’m not saying your husband has ADHD, I’m just saying he might need more “structure” or a time when the task is supposed to be completed. Not everything is done out of malice or lack of respect.
Just my two cents since I don’t know that much about either of you.
Edit: Since ADHD is a spectrum disorder, it’s not a “one glove fits all” kind of situation, everyone have different experiences with different areas. We suffer from time blindness as well, making it hard/impossible to set goals for the future and to achieve those goals.
I’m sympathetic to adhd because I have it up the wazoo. It’s not even the forgetting. It’s the “to make me feel guilty” which puts the responsibility for his feelings of inadequacy on me. If he feels guilty it’s because he f’ed up. I’m not doing it to him and it’s a strategic ploy to make me feel ashamed for not just accepting his half assed effort.
His response is absolutely not an appropriate response for an equal partner to make, and he knows it and knows you didn’t do it to “make him feel guilty.” He feels bad and so he wants you to feel bad, and that’s just not how adults deal with their feelings. I feel close to this because I could see myself slipping into being like this person if I weren’t devoted to being an equal partner.
If he wants to be an equal partner, he needs to own up to his mistakes, acknowledge the emotional labor you’re doing, and come up with accommodations for his shortcomings. You have tried to accommodate for him, and that’s just taking on more emotional labor without any payoff. You’re not his mother, your his spouse, you shouldn’t have to tell him what, when, and how to take care of these things. He may need accommodations, and he can ask for help, but you can’t accommodate for him.
That said, my spouse and I both struggle with ADHD and one way we’ve accommodated our shortcomings is we have a stamp sheet which we fill out every week with cute stamps depending on who completed the task (mine is a penguin). It’s taken a lot of the emotional labor off of both of us, and shows what we need to do or if we’re done for the week and can relax. I’m not saying that solution will help in your case, but recognizing he has a problem, needs accommodations which may involve the whole household is the second step he needs to take. The first, of course, being that he needs to stop trying to make you feel bad because he feels bad. He’s gotta cut that shit out.
Another thing with ADHD (as you might know) is that the frontal lobe isn’t fully developed, which makes it harder to regulate your feelings and how to respond.
I love the idea of a stamp sheet or something like that to make it clear what needs to be done, I often don’t see things that my wife finds obvious and that can lead to irritation, but we have been able to get past that since we talked about my shortcomings and what I need support with to be able to do them.
This is blowing my mind right now and the exact insight I was looking for. He wants me to feel bad because he feels bad. Holy shit.
Or he already feels guilty that you did the task instead of him, so that he feels that he let you down. As I said before, I’m just speculating from my own experiences with letting my wife down (and people at work) by not doing something that I agreed to do, that shouldn’t be hard but is hard since I was unable to get it done.
Have you talked with him about your ADHD? And that you need support from him to be able to maintain a tranquil environment at home?
Yes. I was diagnosed over 10 years ago. I do cbt, I take the meds, I make sure I sleep, eat, get enough water, do the doctor follow ups. I do it all to make sure my adhd is under control as much as it can be. I also have two jobs and do most of the housework. He plays on his ps5 and makes no changes. I am becoming resentful, overworked and tired of being broke because we also pay approximately 90:10 toward the household costs because he won’t do any job that he doesn’t love. So he teaches music part time in the evenings. I have ptsd from years of employment abuse and I have to work two jobs (one of which is still in that field) so I have something called hyper vigilance now which is doing damage to my heart.
At what point do I get to just be fucking mad ? I’ve been understanding on every level. But I can’t live like this so that he doesn’t have to be the slightest bit inconvenienced.
So, what you’re saying here is that your life would improve if you got a divorce…
I’m sorry to hear that, I couldn’t even imagine having to work two jobs, let alone getting employment abuse, I’m tired enough as it is when I get home from my one job. My wife isn’t working either but luckily we get by anyway, but getting a house or a larger investment will take a super long time since there is not much to save each month.
Newly minted trans woman here, still learning the ropes. And also undiagnosed ADHD (i.e. I show the symptoms but never paid a professional). But yeah, I’ve had similar arguments with my wife, and I ended up writing myself notes and setting reminders, cause it’s worth it to stay married.
What I notice is that you are the one in the relationship who ultimately has responsibility for making sure the dishes get done. That means planning, delegating, following up when tasks don’t get done, and doing it yourself if it ends up not getting done.
It sounds like you’re also responsible for the cooking, which probably also includes planning, shopping, gathering ingredients, organizing the pantry, delegating, and finally the act of cooking itself.
I’m just trying to point out the high amount of mental load and management responsibilities involved in these two tasks.
On the other hand, he gets the benefit of the output of your hard work – the distilled and delegated task of just washing the pots, pans, etc. It probably only takes 10 minutes, and he already knows exactly what to do, who needs to do it, etc.
Just from what you’ve said here, it sounds like he’s getting a really good deal, only needing to do a short delegated task and then getting to go play video games. And he’s skipping even that short task.
Whether he does it in the evening or morning clearly makes a huge difference because the task is required before making breakfast, otherwise the pots and pans get in the way. He needs to understand that.
I don’t know what else is going on in your relationship and who is responsible for what other tasks. It sounds like you’re saying that other chores are just as bad. Overall it seems really unfair to me.
Agreed.
But I think the fury is coming from the accusation that she did the dishes just to make him feel bad. Like she’s looking for opportunities to bring him down. The insinuation that she’s betraying the relationship by attacking him.
That’s where the manipulation is.
It’s been 15 years of failed attempts to change her husband according to OP.
Imagine 15 years of someone setting goals for you, and you constantly failing, and them getting upset. It could be manipulation, but it could also just be panic. This situation gives me anxiety 😅
Like OP straight up tells her partner she hates being married to him…
It’s absolutely not like that at all. I said it ONCE, not repeatedly and it was recently. As in a very tired, exhausted “I love you but I hate being married to you” because I’m just so so so tired. I have been understanding, angry, goal oriented, blasé, I’ve been every way. All I want is for us to be partners and value each other and contribute toward our future together. I don’t have that.
If I kept screwing up for fifteen years, I’d figure out it’s easier to do the dishes than to feel like a shitty failure.
You’re right, he’s panicking and he’s feeling bad about his failures- so I’m just supposed to accept it so he can continue the same toxic behaviour? It’s not my responsibility to make sure he feels like his best every day. That’s up to him.
If he’s failing, it’s because he’s choosing to not make the effort, not because I sabotaged him.
You’re the one setting goals you know he won’t meet. 15 years… 15 years getting pissed/frustrated/etc at someone. 15 years of failure.
Anyways, I’m pretty sure you’re aware of this, say whatever you want to the people that don’t know better.
It’s absolutely not like that at all. I said it ONCE, not repeatedly and it was recently. As in a very tired, exhausted “I love you but I hate being married to you” because I’m just so so so tired. I have been understanding, angry, goal oriented, blasé, I’ve been every way.
How about some humility? You straight up tell your husband you hate being married to him, and rather then see that as a problem on your part you’re here trying to justify it.
Like god damn, 15 years! 15 years of setting your partner up for failure.
Your partner isn’t allowed to say you make him feel guilty, but you straight up refer to him as a shitty failure? You’re allowed to tell him you hate being married to him? That’s messed up.
You must be joking. 15 years of a non-equal partnership and I’m the problem ? I’m not setting him up for failure. I’m expecting him to be an equal and contributing member of our partnership. Good luck with your future relationships if you think expecting someone to wash four pots as their only chore on a given day is a problem.
I’m not setting him up for failure. I’m expecting him to be an equal and contributing member of our partnership.
You know he’s not that person, so you are setting him up for failure, but whatever.
One is malicious in intent and one is expecting another adult to just be a fucking adult. This is a child’s opinion.
It’s everything honestly. He does the bare minimum and less. And I feel like the root of the problem is his refusal to acknowledge he’s not being an equal partner. Manipulations like this just perpetuate that wilful ignorance.
Have you read the famous article: She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink?
I have even shared it with him. I doubt he read it. He doesn’t read.
Did you specify a time when the dishes had to be washed and put away? It’s obvious to you that it needs to be done before the next meal is prepared, but is it obvious to your partner? Do they typically help you with washing, cooking or putting away if dishes? Did they learn how cooking works as a child? I find it pretty likely that your partner would find it obvious if they thought about it, but most tasks don’t require deep thought.
Now naturally you shouldn’t really have to put a time limit on chores, but it is a lot harder to separate ignorance from malice if you don’t have clear (and potentially documented) expectations.
We have been married 15 years. I have talked, argued, made lists, and gone on strike. Nothing helps. He may be helpful for a day or two and the second I even acknowledge he’s stepping up, it’s like he goes “great she’s not mad anymore. Now I can stop”. Everything seems to be an avoidance at being an equal partner. If I bring up that I do most of the housework he argues that I’m mistaken about how much he does. If I point out he hasn’t done a chore or has done it only half, he’ll argue that he was going to and so it’s not fair for me to be mad because he fully intends to do it (he never does it). I’ve set time limits, and he waits until the last possible minute and then it’s not his fault when things go wrong because it was more complicated than he thought it would be. Even things that we need to plan to do, like basic house maintenance, he argues about why it needs to be done or makes it 100x more complicated than it needs to be until he has justified not doing it at all. I’ve lowered my standards for housekeeping, for meals, for everything and still, I end up doing almost all of it while he relaxes because “why does it need to be done right now?” Because they pile up and I’m getting buried waiting for him to step up. I also handle most of the child-care, transportation and am the main income earner for the household. I have a full time job and a side gig, and he teaches music in the evenings. That’s it. How the hell am I always the asshole?
Sounds like you’re trying to teach a fish to fly.
Sounds like your values wrt to chores don’t align. If you’ve “tried going on strike” and the result is that he doesn’t care, then maybe this is something that only you care about. And that would completely explain the situation – his goal is to make you happy, so he takes what actions will stop you from complaining, you think he’s learned, and then he goes back to it bc he sees that there’s no more complaints.
I don’t think anyone has accused you of being an asshole. But it’s possible your standards for living are higher than his. That isn’t necessarily insurmountable, but y’all probably should have that discussion.
There’s always accusations of weaponized incompetence on these types of posts. And while that’s definitely a real thing that happens, I figure a lot more often it’s laziness/not being interested in the result. I figure this is often a result of not ever living alone. If I don’t wash my clothes, I don’t have clothes to wear. I could be less lazy about using the laundry, or I could own more clothes and do laundry in greater bulk. Some people chose the former. Some chose the latter. I find both acceptable. If I had a partner that would do the chore for me, I’d thank them, but I’d also tell them that I’d get to it eventually and that everything would be fine.
Dude, seriously, he needed to wash two salad bowls and two frying pans. This is not a case of unreachable goals or unrealistic expectations.
That’s not exactly what I’m saying. I’m not saying your goals for him are unrealistic. But are they his goals?
In his head he’s probably going “it’s only 4 items why does it block cooking I can just do it later”.
And my guess is that you are trying to communicate the problem and either he’s not listening or he’s not hearing. The former there’s not much you can do about. But the latter means you might need to explain things a different way.
That’s what I’m here for. Feedback on how to explain it a different way. Things get very twisty when we talk about things he is defensive about, so helping have itemized thoughts keeps me focused.
"I don’t like to cook in a messy kitchen. You might not understand why this bothers me. And it might not bother you, but it bothers me a lot. So when I ask you to put the dishes away, and they aren’t put away by the time I next want to cook, it makes me feel disrespected and ignored.
How can we work together to fix this?"
I want this thing bc I like it is a totally valid feeling. Don’t get bogged down in an argument about how it doesn’t matter if the kitchen is messy. It matters to you and that is important in and of itself. Bc you’re never going to get him to understand why you care about this. He doesn’t and will try to convince you that you also shouldnt worry about this. You need to reframe as “I want this thing, help me get it”
I say this bc I’m the partner that goes “we don’t need to do X bc …”. I try to avoid this type of problem by proactively asking my partner is this something you’re trying to solve or something you want don’t bc that’s how you like it.
Do situations like that - your feelings getting invalidated and turned on yourself - happen more often or is it uncommon?
And I can see why you struggle to put this in words and explain it to him, because to me it seems like its so many layers you would need to explain to him before he would be able to see his manipulative behavior. This is something I would really struggle to do myself, so i can just send you virtual hugs.
Sorry if this unwanted advice, feel free to skip the stuff below if you just want advice regarding that specific situation.
Reading your comments, I am wondering, do you have any boundaries regarding chores and their distribution? Like if nothing changes, how long can you live with it? What is the minimum of understanding/change you want to achieve to stay in this relationship? Are there any red lines for you? How do see your own situation when you are sick for a longer time or older or have to work for more hours a week?
I feel like you already took a huge effort to communicate with your husband, to provide resources and free education, to be understanding, to deal with constant mild annoyance. It seems like that did not change anything. Right now it seems more than reasonable to check in with your own needs, expectations/hopes/wishes for the future and if you actually believe in your husbands willfulness&ability to change his ways.
It’s a mixed bag. 50% of the time he completely invalidates my feelings, but the other half is actually very understanding and progressive. He has been quick to apologize and make amends when he genuinely understands if the behaviour is off-side but that understanding seems to be at war with his deep desire to protect his ego at all costs, so he battles hard to defend himself even when he’s blatantly wrong. I am the opposite and will consider all sides and always more likely to accept culpability and apologize and make changes so it doesn’t happen again.
Things getting turned around on me ? Constantly. Like I have to actually keep a notebook all day long about everything I do and say, just so that he can’t twist it around on me later if a situation like this comes up. He’s very good at misdirection - I don’t even think he does it consciously, he just has a natural talent for twisting things and disagreeing and picking apart small minutia until I’ve totally lost track of what we are discussing. His dad is like that too - not a smart man, but don’t ever ever fucking play chess or poker with him because he’s a survivor and he will fuck your shit up.
He becomes extremely manipulative and gas-lightey without even realizing he is doing it. Or maybe he does. I’ve tried discussing that with him too, but this is one of the topics he has firmly decided he does not do (except he does) and so he has nothing to change or apologize for
Which is why I’m here for productive ways to discuss this one isolated topic with him. If I can’t stay on point and get through the discussion quickly and efficiently, it will get twisted into a horrible 5 hour nightmare of guilt and confusion.
I’m really quite upset by some posters saying that I’m practically abusing my husband and setting him up to fail. I’m just exhausted and need him to step up, I’m not abusing him.
I think you are trying to isolate a topic from all the other issues, but it seems pretty much impossible. Even if you for yourself can isolate the topic perfectly, I really doubt your husband is willing to do same and instead will view this in context of all other discussions you already had.
You know your husband best and probably know the best way to bring up this issue. If you, as someone who lived with him for years doesn’t know how to get him to understand this, we probably aren’t able to either.
I don’t have any experience with this, but in similar situations I saw two recommended strategies:
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Get someone to be on your side in this issues and get them involved, like ask a family member or a friend for help when bringing this topic up. Or get some help mediating this like with a counselor or get into couples therapy
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Confront your husband with consequences if he does not do get it. I thinks its important that those are consequences that you can actually enforce. So separation / divorce / no sex / not cooking / no cleaning / other things for him can totally be those consequences.
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Google the term Emotional Labour, should give you some insight.
Oh I’m familiar with the term, since I do all of it. Yes, if he does agree to do a chore and then doesn’t do it, often he tells me it’s because I didn’t remind him enough as well. He is even makes me have to do emotional Labour for my emotional labour.
My husband is super guilty of all of this. I tried all of this advice over the years to no avail. Recently I stumbled across a tiktok talking about “right now.” It’s such a simple and obvious concept but it finally put things into perspective for my husband that made a difference. It goes like this: I spend all day taking care of everyone else’s right now. The kids, work, the house, etc. When someone needs something I have to drop whatever I’m doing to help them right then. What I’m doing, my needs, are never met right then. So when I ask for help, even if it can be done later, even if it’s irrational, it will help my mental health by fulfilling the “right now” need. Doing one simple chore in that moment when I ask will mean far more to me than 10 big chores tomorrow unasked.
It might be a sense of entitlement that comes from being a member of the power majority in a patriarchal society. Men are not ususally used to being ordered around (starting from childhood, when compared to women) so any request to do something might be seen as authoritarian over-reach, whereas to someone who is not a member of the power majority, the same request would be normal. It’s not personal, it’s trained behavior. Hopefully it helps you both to communicate better if you take it from that angle.
I think there is a small bit of this. At one time I asked to switch our “jobs” because the “blue jobs” were basically cutting the lawn and taking out the trash once a week from the garage (he will rarely take the garbage out of the house unless it’s overflowing and he will never empty bathroom garbages). He freaked out and said it would emasculate him to take his man-jobs away.
I spend 30 hours a week on my chores on top of my jobs. He spends less than an hour and usually has to be nagged to do that.
it would emasculate him
How can you still love him? I mean, what do you actually like of this person after 15years like this? Sorry if it’s too personal, but I wonder :/
Your preference for everything put away by the end of the night is your preference, not his. My partner doesn’t care to put things away after the kids are asleep, but they’ll be put away in the morning before everyone is up… presences are balanced that way.
Do you constantly nag him about things that you haven’t clearly communicated or is this a special case?
This isn’t a case of preference. This is really one thing in a long line of things. Unfortunately our relationship is a very uneven one where I am responsible for most of the running of the house, as well as the income, and all other tasks. What I’m asking is for some minor changes that make my workload easier to bear.
Having them put away in the morning isn’t an option either. He chooses to sleep until 10-11 daily, then games until he goes to work around 4. He gets home around 8 and then games until 2-3am.
So as you can see, that leaves very little time for him to chip in with chores.
I actually resist nagging. I hate it myself - his mother is a turbo-nag so he actually has a hard time understanding something is important unless he’s being nagged to death. It’s unhealthy and I avoid participating in that type of negative motivation.
Unfortunately it also means that since I don’t force him, he just doesn’t do it, which then falls back on me. And generally with a side of manipulation about how I’m the bad guy to encourage me to not engage next time either.
Your husband works for 20 hours a week, but you are responsible for housekeeping, cooking, childcare and transportation, and you are also the main earner?
Unfortunately yes. When we met he owned his own business and it was doing well. But he’s not a very motivated worker so over the next couple years he pulled back on his work more and more until it was costing more money to run than he was making. We had an economic downturn around the same time and I was making very good money, although working a lot of hours. When our daughter was born, we decided it was time to close up shop and he would be the stay at home parent so I could focus on earning. That was the worst 4 years of my life where I worked 80-100 hours a week and he barely did anything at all. I even had our daughter in daycare three days a week because it was too much for him and she needed socialization. He just stayed home and played games all day. No play dates, no park, nothing. Certainly very little cooking or cleaning and I was still responsible for most emotional labour tasks. I told him finally he had to go back to work or we’d be separating. He did, but since I was earning enough, that was “his” money. One of the massive points of contention was that the felt like he had to ask me for money and I agree that’s a shitty feeling. So he kept the money he made, and I still worked and paid for everything and did all the house stuff. It’s been a lot of years since then, a couple moves, I had what I’m pretty sure is a nervous breakdown after getting fired from my very well paying job (they thought they could find someone to do what I did for 1/3 the cost). Now I have ptsd from all the abuse and insane hours I experienced at that job, so I can’t really work in that field anymore and our income is significantly reduced. I picked up another full time job which earns less but that I can handle emotionally. So he contributes but it’s like 85:15 maybe ? And only because he sees me throwing up and sleeping when I’m not working. The kids are older so I have a reprieve there mostly. I’d put my actual work hours between my job and side hustle at about 55 hours a week right now. The rest is chores and mental health exercises or stress sleeping.
I’m still doing a lot of work to get back to a good place psychologically and emotionally.
As you can see- there hasn’t been a lot of time or energy to be able to set healthy boundaries and with his natural inclination to squirm like a worm on a hook, I usually just end up doing most things myself.
He’s not working on YOUR schedule. That’s quite clearly a matter of preference.
As for the nagging… well, you’ve posted this so you’ve clearly taken what you don’t like about his mother and amplified it into the stratosphere.
Meanwhile… you’re the victim of your Story.
Hopefully his next partner is actually a partner cuz that ain’t you sister.
If it’s his responsibility to do the dishes, you cannot do them for him. I need a couple of weeks to get used to new responsibilities in the household. You gave your husband a solid 12 hours. He probably feels like you didn’t even give him a proper chance, hence his response. He probably wasn’t trying to be manipulative.
It’s going to be really frustrating for you, but IMO the only way to solve this, will be to not touch the dishes for a couple of weeks.
