He/she didn’t blame them, they asked what was their plan. One can twist the words to make a pointless statement. Or one could choose to provide some background that might actually bring the commenter to your side. Help the cause by informing.
Did you read what I wrote? Seems like you are just looking for someone to argue with.
If I attack a guy and he pulls out a gun and shoots me, he still committed murder, but I share some of the blame. It’s not just one or the other. In the middle east it is more like Isreal goaded hamas into attacking it, then pulled out a bazooka instead of a gun. Hamas gets the blame for attacking civilians, and for knowing it would cost it’s own civilian lives. Also for letting Isreal goad them into it. Isreal gets the blame for everything they are doing in response, which is of course a lot more. Anyone intentionally targeting civilians is simply not okay.
I asked what Hamas wanted to achieve by attacking Israel.
Even I would have predicted Israel would lash out. And I’m not really familiar with Israel. So surely Israels direct neighbours, who swore to destroy it, would know it well enough to know how it would react.
What was their plan? What the fuck do they gain from this useless war and destruction?
Not going to pretend to be able to read the minds of Hamas. But it seems like the idea was that taking hostages would give them leverage to negotiate. Because although the Israeli government generally regard Palestinians as subhuman barbarians, surely they wouldn’t risk the lives of the hostages by retaliating full force. And it seems in general they were partially right. The general population of Israel is calling for a ceasefire because they are concerned for the safety of the hostages and want their friends and family back. But Netanyahu seems to have very little interest in negotiations.
Israel’s neighbors have long abandoned their vows to fuck over Israel many decades ago. Egypt made peace with Israel in the 70s and Jordan did in 1994. The Gulf states and Saudi Arabia were never serious about opposing Israel and were secretly trying to normalize their relationship with the country for decades before being open about it in the past 10 years.
Even in 1948 the Arabs were militarily handicapped by a combination of colonialism reworking their militaries from actual militaries to glorified police forces, in addition to being very undersupplied and having no unified plan. The 1948 war was a joke. Far from the David vs. Goliath battle that Israel likes to play it off as (the Israeli military at the time was much, MUCH better armed than all of their Arab neighbors combined in addition to being numerically superior to all their adversaries as well).
The Israelis were always monstrous in their conduct towards their enemies. They were always genocidal and extreme in their terrorism. Do you know the great replacement theory or the fear that white supremacists have over minorities gaining any sort of influence with more numbers? The only example in human history where something like that happened WAS by Zionists in their slow takeover over the region. They did, to a T, everything they claimed Muslims do when taking over. Acting all nice when they are the minorities, then demanding more and more as their numbers grow and purposefully push other groups out before demanding everything. All the while never integrating into local communities and forming impregnable enclaves of their own. For example by the 1920s there were Zionist communities in Palestine that had been living there for more than a generation at that point but did not interact at all with the local community. Not even with Arab Jews, and they did not speak any Arabic either.
And I was referring to your part where you were referring to Israel’s direct neighbors.
As it stands a war between them right now would be very different than 1948. If Israel cannot militarily defeat a group operating in prison and has had a group of ragtag rebels in Yemen blockade the country (despite them having no navy) I think that Egypt and Jordan of the 2020s can really give the IDF a serious run for its money. Especially if the US grows a pair and stands up to Israel and stops supplying weapons.
But sadly if that happens Israel will go down in history as the only other country to use nuclear weapons in anger… and on itself to prevent the country from being defeated, as per their Samson and Hannibal doctrines.
Hamas is not a neighbor! Like Holy shit dude! Are you one of those guys who legit thinks that Gaza is a fully independent country and that Hamas is an internationally recognized sovereign entity?
Taiwan isn’t a “internationally recognized sovereign entity” either. Does that mean it doesn’t exist? Does that mean it doesn’t have a sovereign government and rule the Island of Taiwan?
ISIS isn’t an “internationally recognized sovereign entity”. Does that mean it isn’t at war with Iraq and Syria? Does that mean it doesn’t/didn’t have a border/frontline with Iraq/Syria?
yes, Hamas is in control of Gaza and is a Neighbour of Israel.
I think they assumed that Israel wouldn’t be so bloodthirsty as to put the hostages at risk, which would give them a bargaining position so that once they weathered the initial retaliation they would be able to get concessions such as allowing Palestinians to leave Gaza, ending the blockade of Gaza’s ports, ending Israeli control of Gazan water sources, etc.
But as we’ve all learned since then the IDF has an explicit policy to kill Israeli civilians if it looks like they’re about to be captured, and Israel’s political leadership simply aren’t put off by the possibility of killing every single remaining hostage in their campaign to flatten Gaza.
What I find laughable are all the Americans who I watched demand the deaths of Muslims and Arabs from decades, suddenly want to play the moral paragons and defenders of Palestine. Americans fucked my country too and they just move on to the next outrage, without apologizing, making amends or anything. They wreck half the world, then turn around and moralize to us.
See the thing is you are scribing to all Americans what the media shows you. The media makes money on extremes. So they hand pick who’s opinion you here. Hardly anyone I know here in America actually demanded the deaths of Muslims and Arabs at all. It was still too many, but far from what the media would have you believe.
seriously, what was HAMAS’ end-game here?
surely they knew that they couldn’t defend Gaza against Israel?
Did they miscalculate the risk and think Israel wouldn’t react?
Ah yes israel committing Genocide is actually Hamas’ fault.
He/she didn’t blame them, they asked what was their plan. One can twist the words to make a pointless statement. Or one could choose to provide some background that might actually bring the commenter to your side. Help the cause by informing.
When a party commits war crimes those are the fault of that party. Blaming them on the other party is not how it works.
Hamas is responsible for Hamas’ war crimes on oct7. Israel is responsible for their Genocide being committed right now.
Did you read what I wrote? Seems like you are just looking for someone to argue with. If I attack a guy and he pulls out a gun and shoots me, he still committed murder, but I share some of the blame. It’s not just one or the other. In the middle east it is more like Isreal goaded hamas into attacking it, then pulled out a bazooka instead of a gun. Hamas gets the blame for attacking civilians, and for knowing it would cost it’s own civilian lives. Also for letting Isreal goad them into it. Isreal gets the blame for everything they are doing in response, which is of course a lot more. Anyone intentionally targeting civilians is simply not okay.
Please don’t put words in my mouth.
I asked what Hamas wanted to achieve by attacking Israel.
Even I would have predicted Israel would lash out. And I’m not really familiar with Israel. So surely Israels direct neighbours, who swore to destroy it, would know it well enough to know how it would react.
What was their plan? What the fuck do they gain from this useless war and destruction?
Do you know how many generations Palestinians have been dying to this shit?
Humans have a finite capacity to endure things before shit starts getting irrational all around.
Revenge was never rational, really.
Not going to pretend to be able to read the minds of Hamas. But it seems like the idea was that taking hostages would give them leverage to negotiate. Because although the Israeli government generally regard Palestinians as subhuman barbarians, surely they wouldn’t risk the lives of the hostages by retaliating full force. And it seems in general they were partially right. The general population of Israel is calling for a ceasefire because they are concerned for the safety of the hostages and want their friends and family back. But Netanyahu seems to have very little interest in negotiations.
Here is a great video by an israel explaining all of that.
The real question is what israel is gaining from committing Genocide in Gaza.
That’s a pretty easy answer, it’s letting anyone else know the lengths they will go when attacked.
Israel’s neighbors have long abandoned their vows to fuck over Israel many decades ago. Egypt made peace with Israel in the 70s and Jordan did in 1994. The Gulf states and Saudi Arabia were never serious about opposing Israel and were secretly trying to normalize their relationship with the country for decades before being open about it in the past 10 years.
Even in 1948 the Arabs were militarily handicapped by a combination of colonialism reworking their militaries from actual militaries to glorified police forces, in addition to being very undersupplied and having no unified plan. The 1948 war was a joke. Far from the David vs. Goliath battle that Israel likes to play it off as (the Israeli military at the time was much, MUCH better armed than all of their Arab neighbors combined in addition to being numerically superior to all their adversaries as well).
The Israelis were always monstrous in their conduct towards their enemies. They were always genocidal and extreme in their terrorism. Do you know the great replacement theory or the fear that white supremacists have over minorities gaining any sort of influence with more numbers? The only example in human history where something like that happened WAS by Zionists in their slow takeover over the region. They did, to a T, everything they claimed Muslims do when taking over. Acting all nice when they are the minorities, then demanding more and more as their numbers grow and purposefully push other groups out before demanding everything. All the while never integrating into local communities and forming impregnable enclaves of their own. For example by the 1920s there were Zionist communities in Palestine that had been living there for more than a generation at that point but did not interact at all with the local community. Not even with Arab Jews, and they did not speak any Arabic either.
It has always been projection. Plain and simple.
I am talking about Hamas, not Egypt or Jordan
And I was referring to your part where you were referring to Israel’s direct neighbors.
As it stands a war between them right now would be very different than 1948. If Israel cannot militarily defeat a group operating in prison and has had a group of ragtag rebels in Yemen blockade the country (despite them having no navy) I think that Egypt and Jordan of the 2020s can really give the IDF a serious run for its money. Especially if the US grows a pair and stands up to Israel and stops supplying weapons.
But sadly if that happens Israel will go down in history as the only other country to use nuclear weapons in anger… and on itself to prevent the country from being defeated, as per their Samson and Hannibal doctrines.
I was not referring to Israels direct neighbors, is was refering to its direct neighbor Hamas
Hamas is not a neighbor! Like Holy shit dude! Are you one of those guys who legit thinks that Gaza is a fully independent country and that Hamas is an internationally recognized sovereign entity?
Hamas is the de-facto leader of Gaza.
Taiwan isn’t a “internationally recognized sovereign entity” either. Does that mean it doesn’t exist? Does that mean it doesn’t have a sovereign government and rule the Island of Taiwan?
ISIS isn’t an “internationally recognized sovereign entity”. Does that mean it isn’t at war with Iraq and Syria? Does that mean it doesn’t/didn’t have a border/frontline with Iraq/Syria?
yes, Hamas is in control of Gaza and is a Neighbour of Israel.
I think they assumed that Israel wouldn’t be so bloodthirsty as to put the hostages at risk, which would give them a bargaining position so that once they weathered the initial retaliation they would be able to get concessions such as allowing Palestinians to leave Gaza, ending the blockade of Gaza’s ports, ending Israeli control of Gazan water sources, etc.
But as we’ve all learned since then the IDF has an explicit policy to kill Israeli civilians if it looks like they’re about to be captured, and Israel’s political leadership simply aren’t put off by the possibility of killing every single remaining hostage in their campaign to flatten Gaza.
What I find laughable are all the Americans who I watched demand the deaths of Muslims and Arabs from decades, suddenly want to play the moral paragons and defenders of Palestine. Americans fucked my country too and they just move on to the next outrage, without apologizing, making amends or anything. They wreck half the world, then turn around and moralize to us.
See the thing is you are scribing to all Americans what the media shows you. The media makes money on extremes. So they hand pick who’s opinion you here. Hardly anyone I know here in America actually demanded the deaths of Muslims and Arabs at all. It was still too many, but far from what the media would have you believe.