I read this lib “how to” about Gaza - How To Speak To Voters Who Say They Can’t Support Biden Because Of Gaza. The substack is co-run by George Takei and he’s built himself into a super-popular lib brand. I wanted to know what he was promoting.
Most of it was exactly what I expected. But a surprising word stuck in my craw - “dealbreaker”. As if there can be a “deal” made on morality. And - of course - the “deal” is we must change 100% and see things the lib way while they don’t change an iota. Quite a deal!
Most of us know someone on the left who is dug in against voting for Joe Biden because of U.S. policy toward Israel and Gaza. For them, the continued support of Israel and the flow of weapons is a dealbreaker, and they say they can’t support a president for reelection who would back a genocidal campaign against the Palestinians.
But this rarely works because 1) in their mind, nothing could be more evil or harmful than genocide,
…uh…
Very cool opinion coming from a guy who was interned as a child
In their mind - nothing could be more evil or harmful than genocide should be in a song called “Libs”.
It kind of already is in Love Me, I’m a Liberal by Phil Ochs lol
My jaw dropped on reading that
The ice-cold disregard libs have for human life is far more disturbing to me than frothing fash hatred
The right tries to stab you in the heart, so at least you see it coming. Liberals put an arm around you like you’re pals, then stick you in the kidney.
And they say “You gotta vote for Biden. Ya don’t want Trump again - do you?” as they twist the knife.
Running from the snarling wolf to the “smiling” fox.
Mine too. I thought corgiwithalaptop was paraphrasing. But no, that is verbatim from that post. I can’t think of anything more evil than an actual genocide, except for trying to kill all of humanity. What sort of human being writes that?
except for trying to kill all of humanity.
Which is also a genocide
CW SA, genocide
spoiler
No amount of “but he’s a good man” or “the alternative is an even worse nightmare” reasoning seems to move them from their position.
I replied that I have the pleasure of serving on the board of an organization devoted to human rights, and we had just held lengthy, internal discussions about what the best approach is when the subject of Gaza and Joe Biden comes up. Here are some key takeaways.
Talk about other issues that matter to you. This is a key point. When someone is stuck on the narrative that “Joe Biden is bad,” you should move away from talking about the candidates (Biden v. Trump) and talk instead about all the issues that matter to you. This election is about Gaza, yes. But it’s also about many other things:
- Reproductive freedom and a right to abortion that was stripped away from millions of women overnight;
Joe Biden is practically pro-life and Roe was overturned in his administration
Threats to democracy and rule of law from autocratic leaders and their enablers in the Republican party;
Joe Biden’s administration continues a pattern of undermining Haitian autonomy and rule of law.
Reducing the use of fossil fuels and addressing the global threat of climate change;
Joe Biden is sending us off the cliff
Supporting our allies in NATO and Ukraine fully against Russian aggression;
The Ukrainian armed forces are rapists
An economy that focuses on the needs of the people at the bottom and the middle, not those at the very top;
Joe Biden is a stooge of the bourgeoisie
Reducing gun violence and the need for sensible gun safety legislation, all currently opposed by Republicans;
A humane and functional immigration policy that doesn’t demonize vulnerable migrants;
Joe Biden’s administration continues to operate concentration camps at the US Mexico border
Compassion and full equality for the LGBTQ+ community, particularly trans youth in need of gender-affirming medicine;
Joe Biden’s administration has seen an all out assault on trans people with absolutely no substantial action from the federal government to stop the disintegration of trans rights
Ask them what else matters to them.
That you stop lying.
GOOD POST, saving this for my lib colleagues
It’s so chilling to realize that basically every single person this shit system of ours raises to the “top”, actors, politicians, managers etc. is a shit tier person. It just is revealed over and over again. And these are the people that mediate everyones understanding of the world, that get to dictate what is or isn’t done. The people who “curate” our reality.
How this becomes a system that just re-enforces exploitation and misery is just so easy to understand. There isn’t any “few good men”.
It all goes back to the power of blackmail IMO. It’s a lot easier to manipulate public figures if the intelligence apparatus and the state department has access to a red button that destroys the credibility for any public figure. It’s not so much that there’s a big conspiracy, like Epstein, to get all the celebs to be doing heinous things to be used for blackmail; instead, all the institutions that are supposed to prevent abuse instead have been shifted to providing accountability or enforcing a punishment on those who are exposed as abusers. It goes both ways too, like with Takei, if you bend the knee and didn’t offend too greatly the media forgives and extinguishes fire. That way, the media and the surveillance state ultimately have the power to make your career and end it, and they make sure there is still a culture for people to incriminate themselves on their watch before they get big. If 80% of the celebrities people pay attention to have skeletons in their closets, and we have an all knowing panopticon, it becomes a billion times easier for that panopticon to flip those celebrities into working in favor of the state dept’s agenda.
i skipped through this dogshit article to find the actual arguments. here is what they suggest:
Say you feel conflicted, too. Forming a bridge of understanding with those who are suffering anguish at the role our country and this administration are playing in Gaza is foundationally critical to having any kind of productive discussion. Expressing your own emotions—whether it’s frustration, horror, pain, sorrow, confliction—will open a patch of common ground on which real dialogue can happen. It is an invitation to share more, not shut down. And talking with someone who also hates what’s happening in Gaza but arrives at a different result on how to act on it can be illuminating.
Talk about other issues that matter to you. This is a key point. When someone is stuck on the narrative that “Joe Biden is bad,” you should move away from talking about the candidates (Biden v. Trump) and talk instead about all the issues that matter to you. This election is about Gaza, yes. But it’s also about many other things:
Ask them what else matters to them. You won’t be able to convince voters that they are wrong for standing on the Gaza issue and not supporting Biden. How they ultimately vote is something they will have to arrive at in just over six months, and each journey will differ. All anyone can do now is seek to expand the discussion beyond the war to include all of the other things that also matter to progressive voters. From there, they’ll have to make up their own mind, but you will have left an opening. Let them say aloud what else they care about, and then let them make their own decisions.
so the advice is to deflect and emotionally manipulate people
talking with someone who also hates what’s happening in Gaza but arrives at a different result
The different result is being pro genocide
Oh hey I remember when some lib tried to do that here, and then got all pissy and whiny about the fact I wouldn’t call them comrade. They were shocked when I told them that their rhetoric would result in them getting their ass kicked, if they tried it in IRL leftist orgs (or at least the ones I’ve frequented).
“I’m still a comrade, I just disagree on Palestine. I share your pain, I understand it, I sympathise with the pain of the Palestinian people! I’m still a comrade and I’ll call you comrade even if you won’t call me one! I respect your opinion though! Why won’t you respect mine?”
Something like that. Incredibly transparent. I hope they got their head dunked in a toilet.They act like all of our problems with Biden exist in a vacuum so they can call us single issue voters. If the single issue is genocide, and they can’t see how that’s a red line, I wish them endless mental anguish when trump wins in November and nothing fucking changes.
Leftists: “There’s a lot wrong with Biden. He’s assaulted women, he’s anti-abortion, he oversaw the overturning of Roe v. Wade, he’s doing essentially nothing to mitigate climate disaster and is in fact making things a lot worse, he mishandled COVID, he’s clearly not taking future pandemic risks seriously, the us infrastructure is falling apart but he’s more focused on arming forced conscripts in Ukraine so he can support a neo-nazi government, he’s increasingly beliggerent towards Russia and China, he increased funding for police, he’s overseen incredible attacks on LGBTQ+ people that he’s done nothing about, he more or less completely lied about what he’d do in office - I mean he’s not ‘trusting the science’ and he’s not ‘listening to his constituents’ he hasnt really fought to alleviate student debt… Christ in not even close to going thru the list of issues. I really wish the dems would put forth another candidate, however it is clear they’re not willing to do this. It sucks, but Trump is so terrifying to me that I’d honestly be willing to vote for Biden despite all this, if he just didn’t actively support a genocide. However since he is, I don’t really see any difference between him and Trump anymore, but if he stops supporting the genocide I’ll probably still vote for him.”
Dems: “smh at these single-issue-voters” calls SWAT on young people practicing their constitutional right to protest “why won’t the kids vote for Biden? There’s only one thing he does that they disagree with! Don’t they see that trump will make America fascist?” Makes it illegal to critique Israel
“Biden won’t give you a free pony. The adults in the room have to make all those unpopular tough decisions™ because you don’t know how politics works. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the ‘good’ (read: genocide, mass poverty and civil unrest)”
We see you. We hear you.
Now shut up and vote for 
He was literally stuffed in a concentration camp when he was a kid, how the fuck does he process the fact he’s advocating for exactly what he went through but a thousand times worse?
I assume he has the worst case of American exceptionalism brain possible. Day after day for decade after decade he’s convinced himself that America is the indispensable nation, a City on a Hill, and all that other shit. People like him must be certain in their bones that America is righteous and just. If he starts to doubt the US even a tiny bit - the entire façade will collapse.
Don’t forget he also was accused of sexual assault and got a newspaper to smear his accuser and then everybody just pretended that was a trial and that he was declared innocent
He also claimed that the Russians were behind the accusations which is peak lib
why would he do chekov like that
ETA: OMG you’re right. He must be a
.George Takei Upset Some People By Blaming Russia For Spreading The Sexual Assault Claim Against Him
In a move that evoked shades of Kevin Spacey coming out in response to sexual assault allegations against him, Takei blamed Russia for amplifying the the male model’s accusations. In doing so, Takei tweeted (and subsequently deleted) a chart that purportedly showed Russian bot-activity trends over 48 hours. The chart originated from SecuringDemocracy.org and showed “Takei” and “George Takei” high atop the trending list. Takei claimed that these bots attacked his Facebook page, and his team had to “ban all traffic from within the Russian federation.”
it’s literally just that shit that republicans do whenever they get into some sex scandal or whatever and they say “(((the elites))) are coming for me because they want to get you and I’m standing in their way”
“I’m extremely famous and I’ve been credibly accused of heinous crimes. Why would that be trending? Why would people be talking about that and searching for that? RUSSIA!”
“fuck you, I’ve got mine”
He had a musical made about it and starred in it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegiance_(musical)
I was actually taken to go see that musical. It was mid, mostly because the biggest anger seemed to be at the U.S. for not recognizing how patriotic it’s Japanese-American citizens were.
Colonized mentality. If they put your people in a concentration camp, the correct response is to want the entire nation brought down and for something better to be built in its place; doesn’t matter if it’s Nazi Germany or the Great Satan that inspired them.
Yeah I remember. I saw a screening of it when it was in theaters.
Time and distance are a hell of a drug
This election is about Gaza, yes. But it’s also about many other things:
- Reproductive freedom and a right to abortion that was stripped away from millions of women overnight;
While who was president?
Can Trump can take away federal reproductive rights any harder? I don’t think so. They’re already gone.
Compassion and full equality for the LGBTQ+ community, particularly trans youth in need of gender-affirming medicine;
As a member of at least 4 letters of LGBTQ+, I don’t need “compassion”, I need fucking action, which has not been forthcoming in the current Biden presidency.
- Threats to democracy
Don’t be ridiculous.
- An economy that focuses on the needs of the people at the bottom and the middle, not those at the very top;
That’s communism, not liberalism.
Liberals will shake their head at any policy or candidate that actually addresses these things.
As a member of at least 4 letters of LGBTQ+, I don’t need “compassion”, I need fucking action, which has not been forthcoming in the current Biden presidency.
My new favourite angle for debating the Vote Blue No Matter Who types is to bait them into describing how Biden cannot address any of the issues that matter to you, especially if you can get them to do so in detail, by asking them what Biden has actually done. If necessary summarise their arguments when appropriate to get them to agree that Biden cannot do anything.
Then once the conversation has reached its natural conclusion and you have given them enough signals that they think they’ve managed to convert you, tell them that you’ve decided that you cannot vote for Biden in good conscience because they’ve just convinced you that Biden is completely incapable of achieving anything.
Puts them in a real double-bind because either they have to argue that Biden could actually do something but he just doesn’t care to or that he wants to do things but he can’t, but either side of that argument is going to lose your vote.
The synthesis of those contradictions is either arguing for you being more realistic in your politics, at which point the easy response is that if the political reality is handing over your vote in the knowledge that there will be no changes for the better then that is in itself defeatism or a kind of political nihilism, or to say that things will get worse under Trump, at which point you have them because it’s hard to imagine being more personally at odds with someone whose politics is “There are worse things than genocide”.
- “that’s not how politics works, honey. Presidents have no power and can’t do anything. But if trump gets in, it’s game over for democracy somehow”
Well that’s just because trump doesn’t respect the rules. What’s that? He’s allowed to do these things? Yes I know that its not technically against the rules, but it’s rude which is why we can’t do it and why Biden is incapable of doing anything. When they go low, we go high!
The problem of evil applied to the demonrats. Love it!
Lmao I didn’t even realise that this was the problem of evil despite being familiar with the concept. Good catch!
All these anti queer laws have been passed while Biden is president. Biden admin is doing nothing,
He’s actually given support to some of the sports team laws
Most of us know someone on the left who is dug in against voting for Joe Biden because of U.S. policy toward Israel and Gaza.
This warms my heart
literal Q tier shitif only someone in the Biden camp were better at 4D chess, they could have simply not assisted a genocide and this devious ploy would have failed.
Iran helped Hamas attack Israel to ultimately help Trump
The stupidity of Americans never ceases to amaze me
The stupidity of Americans never ceases to amaze me
For me, it’s more the “all world events are really about American team-sport politics” focus that annoys me. Not every damn thing in the world is about Donald Trump’s election chances.
I have seen a ton of people saying it was Russia helping Hamas to distract from the other forever war. So which is it, libs?
Imagine being born inside of a Japanese internment camp and still loving this country.
Material interests
only when the last palestinian has been murdered, after all the denial, downplaying, and inaction toward this genocide we’ve seen from these sick fucks, will they employ that performative compassion they do with every injustice, and pretend as though they’re deeply appalled by the tragedy they caused. not with a hint of introspection and accountability of course; they’d rather have a republican victory than truly compromise with us because then they can shift the blame from themselves to maga, and to leftists as well for supposedly letting trump win and continue to carry out the genocide that they themselves were going to keep doing anyway
when they inevitably bring out the crocodile tears, we should never let them forget how they acted during all of this
It doesn’t matter if we “never let them forget”. They write the history. They co-opt our victories and claim them as their own. They cynically throw minorities under the bus for political gain and then pretend to be their friend.
There is no “history will remember”. People don’t even remember the world kitchen murders from a month ago, or the flour massacre. Time is irrelevant in this context. All they have to do is cook up a different news cycle and all the atrocities of Israel will be forgotten in a weeks time.
In that sense the western world does live in an “end of history”, just not the kind commonly touted. Our end of history is the end of reality. In the US especially, it’s all a culture of vibes and heads in the sand and we’ll blow the whole world up if it ever thinks of challenging that. Nothing happens, and nothing ever happened. Today we brunch.
“Bernie was the compromise.”
Despite how much of a spineless coward and perhaps just as bad in different ways, this is literaly walking in circles as far as democrats rethorics goes, perpetualy stuck in the years between 2016 and 2020 from now on.
This is something that I keep coming back to again and again too. Just like FDR, Bernie was the compromise candidate to let off just enough steam so that we all begrudgingly except that enough overtures have been made to the working class, move away from truly radical politics, and allow the whole cycle to start over again. And even that was too far for the capitalists this time (not that they really ever accepted FDR), but the difference is that the media control is much more entrenched, making average liberals themselves too uncompromising to make the smart choice for their preferred political system.
In a way it is relieving to have such a clear delineation between paths of justice/evil. We will never again be tricked into wasting any energy on progressive candidates within a bourgeois party. The choice always was between socialism and barbarism, and no one who is paying attention can trick themselves into thinking otherwise ever again.
i love how libs go into this sort of discussion thinking they’re going to get any response out of normal people that isn’t “lol kill yourself”. like bestie, no one’s fucking listening to you, no one cares, you cannot yapp hard enough to deceive the evidence of people’s eyes.
these people are really trying to ~fAcTs AnD lOgIc~ their way around footage of dead children and it isnt’ gonna fucking work
The Democratic Party has spent more effort in the past few months to shut down/censor left-wing and pro-Palestine activism than they have in the past 10 years to shut down/censor right-wing rhetoric that promotes hatred of migrants, Muslims, LGBT people, “globalists” (which basically just means imaginary Jewish conspirators), etc; never mind that the latter has lead to actual murders against all aforementioned groups. Why should we believe them when they’ve thoroughly proven that they’re far more interested in wielding power against the left than against the Republicans they were supposedly elected to fight?
He and his family was rounded up at gunpoint into open air prison camps just because of his race. Leopards ate his face and he was cool about it.
He has a point about it being a deal breaker. All of us who voted for Biden in 2020 actually did make a sort of deal with liberalism to fight against fascism… and then the liberals joined forces with fascists to do genocide.
they say they can’t support a president for reelection who would back a genocidal campaign against the Palestinians. No amount of “but he’s a good man” […] reasoning seems to move them from their position
stupid wokes should have realised that the guy who’s spent half a century defending apartheid and child murder is actually a decent guy
