The insane windows hate on Lemmy is actually pushing me away from wanting to try Linux. Some of you are insufferable, like your entire personality is that you use Linux.
How can you tell someone is a Linux user?
Don’t worry they’ll tell you
I use windows 11 and I don’t see what all the hate is for. Maybe it’s cuz I use Pro, and click a couple of buttons to hide the “news”… but it seems perfectly fine to me.
And I’m a power user, with Linux experience.
Telemetry and many more unsatisying solutions and issues on Windows.
The AMD GPU drivers just sometimes dont detect my monitor.
I cant change between headphones and speakers except when I install some weird drivers for my soundcard.
Updates… every application needs to be running and eating cpu to check individually for updates, even when not used.
Installing dependencies, lirbaries or applications… either figure out how to compile things and manually set paths everywhere or find the right exe in the big web.
No other desktop with different features. Lacking desktop features that slowly get copied from linux to Windows like PowerTools and other things, but still doesn’t have everything. Most desktop tools and eye candy just dont work after a few windows update and tend to break. Many more issues when you just use apps that use the buggy Windows API.
Changing internal things need to be mostly done with regedit. Least user friendliest solution.
But thats whats bothering me on Windows. I use Windows 11 with Ameliorated to play VR games. The rest is unsatisfying and nonsense to do on Windows as Linux has a much greater overall Desktop experience with KDE or Gnome depending on your preference. Much more automation with packages and syncing.
Bro every point you make is the same the other way around.
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there’s is apps to remove telemetry, is a pain to do it at updates, but is not as painful as having to use a terminal to fix every fucking issue. A cheap pirateable solution.
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in Linux you have to do shenanigans to install Nvidia drivers, if they work. And with amd, a few years ago I had a lot of trouble trying running a 6700xt with Linux. Linux had never worked for my games right of the bat. I always had to deal with some bullshit config beforehand.
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my jbl headset didn’t work until I installed weird weird drivers for my device. Same bullshit as windows/linux 10 years ago.
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Bro really? Most apps. Either update when you open or close them. How crippling /s
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installing dependencies lol. Executing those auto installing redists ONCE must be hard for a Linux user. I’m sure Linux never had a asked you to install a chillion dependencies just to run one app. Or uninstalled something you need, totally ignored considering you just see a list of dependencies and that it. Hell would I know what I really need. For windows, finding software is fucking easy. Just get the thing you want, run the exe, next next next and you’re done. Besides, don’t you use flatpack now?
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your last point is just bullshit. If you want to customize, powerusers always have options. Linux and Windows has their own specific apps that works for them. When I wanted a simple overlay app for a game on Linux, I had to compile a lot of bullshit and nearly took a week to make it work. Windows gave me no issues. The app existed and I didn’t need to check if I had xorg or Wayland running (the latter being trash for the games I play, artifacts everywhere) or some other bullshit. Run the exe, next next next, done.
Edit: but yeah, put Tabasco in your eyes.
I got some of your points. But Nvidia can be plug and play when choosing the right distro. AMD was always plug and play so I really dont know what issue you had or what distro. Not every Linux is simple.
Arch (EndavoueOS for user friendliness), NixOS or Gentoo dont really uninstall things you just needed. But I had this issue on Debian based distros. When removing one package, its important dependencies can be wiped too, deleting wifi and other important packages. It even says that but I dont like to read a wall of text. I hate debian for this but I would not argue against “Linux” as an entirety.
I tried to setup a very similar setup on Windows on my work experience and dragging windows with super button was possible with AutoHotKey, but was super Buggy. Rainmeter has many weird issues and stop working after updates, and may even force you to reinstall your Windows as a friend mentioned. Transparent Taskbar app was the same experience. What wasnt possible at all was super+right-click to resize the windows. So my workflow was not possible at all on Windows. Thats where Gnome and KDE are golden. Especiall with widgets and extensions enhancing your desktop experience further where I would need to deeply search and hack around in Windows.
Regdist was sometimes needed to be manually configured depending on what you wanted to do with your Desktop. So there is no install thing. But when something provides and needs the regedit, then it happens behind the scenes on the installer of the app, so you downplay the actuall issue and desire to change your desktop in an weird way.
In terms of Compilation. Thats where Arch Linux and many other distros are satisfying, community scripts with a push of a button (AUR). Combine this with Pamac or some other store and you literally have a push button to install complex things. I never compile things myself but just install the things through AUR and let the job be done.
I see that you have had harsh issues with Linux because you either didn’t knew its alternatives or didnt understand the issues. I tend to rather have solvable issues on Linux than not understandable magic solutions that sometimes dont work on Windows. And you cant gain knowledge of the issue or solution as everything needs to be hidden and magic on purpose.
Linux is literally better on the Desktop Experience because you can decide how you work and how things should behave. Impossible for Windows except you hack yourself your C# dotnet application that controls your Desktop over the Windows API as mostly thats the only way for Windows. On Linux… you can choose your path. You can choose your Desktop, Distro, whatever. Things become easier and easier over time. But as an only consumer, I guess only Operating Systems like SteamOS are ideal. But many people show how they can live easier with Linux Mint or EndavourOS than Windows. Not everyone’s experience.
And I already mentioned why I dislike Windows. Once you have control over your workflow, you will want to have it everywhere. Unfortunately, Windows wants to be a one size fits all OS and doesn’t let you change much unlike Linux Desktops.
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Don’t try to argue with tech tribalists my dude.
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ok power user. I’m sure you love all the extra steps it takes to do basic admin functions that used to be one click in 10. I’m sure you love the forced updates and constant addition of edge and search bars to your desktop. I’m sure you love all the privacy invasion and ads shoved into every corner of the OS.
Jesus, just take a moment to realize how insufferable you need to be to have people defend Windows. Privacy issues are the only valid argument at this point for Windows and a really good argument so just harp on it.
Edge isn’t a new concept, it’s just replaced IE. Also I don’t get the want to remove it entirely, try removing libcurl and see how functional Linux is for a daily driver. Just set Firefox as your default browser and call it a day, you’ll never see Edge again.
The search bar is one click to hide. Also several distros ship with a search bar.
Ads don’t appear with Windows Pro
Not really sure what setting you’re having trouble getting to, everything’s roughly the same between 7, 10, and 11 for power users.
Idk, maybe it’s cuz I’m on the same windows install I’ve been on for a few years, but there are things I dislike, but I’ve changed them, long ago. And occasionally I have to disable another taskbar thing, or well… that’s basically it.
The privacy element is legit, and I do what I can to reduce the amount of tracking they can do. But I game, I play games that don’t run on Linux. Well, the anti cheat doesn’t run on Linux. I check back frequently, because I do see the appeal of Linux. But windows just isn’t as bad (for me) as people make it out to be, and definitely not enough to deal with dual booting or virtualizing windows to maintain access to the games I play most.
Same. I know my way around Linux but game enough that switching isn’t super practical.
I haven’t had issues with Windows for years except for one install or upgrade that went sideways one way or another, but I keep backups so 🤷. I’ve never found killing telemetry and nixing features I don’t want to be any more tedious than doing stuff in Linux. Oh no there’s a few extra clicks in the click fest of setting up a new os install to how I like it whaattt will I ever dooooooooo.
I used Windows before and was against Linux because it felt too difficult to get into. That was before I upgraded to Windows 10 and found out that something or the other broke windows every 3 or 4 days. Linux is very easy to fix and doesn’t break often in he first place, and as it turns out isn’t even very hard to get into. I have much more confidence getting into server management software now that I switched to Linux and it has been immensely helpful in other cases too, especially with eh recent developments of WINE and Proton.
Pro augments nothing in this area. These people are just unstable.
I said this exact same thing a few months ago and was downvoted to oblivion lol
It’s like veganism for nerds.
At least loving linux doesnt make me have digestive issues! Lol
@Cold_Brew_Enema @Shard
Yeah why do we have so big egos 😟
You think OP isn’t a Windows 10 user? Why?
Oh, bless your heart. You just be new here! Welcome!
A vast majority of the people on Lemmy use Linux. Or, at least, the Linux users on here are the most vocal about their OS. Just type in “Linux” in the community search, and you’ll find dozens and dozens of linux communities with thousands of subscribers, compared to a handful of Windows communities with only a few hundred subscribers.
@Cold_Brew_Enema
Lol. I don’t hate Windows 😂 I’m just joking.Use whatever you want 😄
It’s fucking unreal how many of them froth at the mouth about Linux. Like, fuck off.
By the way, I actually endorse Linux for limited uses. I’m just realistic about it… It’s simply not a solution for everything.
I highly doubt that if you were given the actual choice you’d pick the one that could permanently dammage your eyes over using an annoying operating system.
This is just stupid.
This guy is fun at parties!
I don’t like parties, unless it is of the LAN veriaty.
I miss those
Orally administered hot sauce is a temporary pain.
An unnecessary, half finished OS replacing a perfectly fine one just to save serve you adds is not.
‘Perfectly fine’ is a stretch
Not as a Linux user
Ads*
Aids*
They said oral everyone.
I’m pretty convinced that that won’t permanently damage your eyes, I don’t think it’s acidic enough.
Only one way to find out
Any chef can attest also toilet breaks
@stoy hehe. of course i would chose the annoying OS instead :D
Others mentioned how they did it so I would rather have pain for a day or two than lifelong
Ahh yes. Typical Windows bad, linux good meme. When questioned why linux is better, the answer will be beating around the bush sort of it’s worth the months of tweaking to get the WiFi adapter to work. And it’s quite embarrassing to see all these guys who post abominations like this without knowing anything about debloating Windows and stripping the installation to make a perfect install without Microsoft bullshit. If Linux works for you, Good for you. If Windows works for you, Good for you. Get over it. This is cringe at this point.
I just started my switch to Linux and the only things that don’t work out of the box on my brand new Lenovo laptop are things that have no bearing on the actual use of the device. And frankly, spending hours fiddling to make things work is much more satisfying than spending hours trying to figure out how to stop Microsoft spying on me.
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…for you.
TL;DR there are good and bad things, positives and drawbacks about all OSes, educate, don’t gatekeep.
I have a laptop that runs Windows fine, then installed Linux on it.
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The trackpad was not well supported and glitched often, as was the fingerprint sensor. I personally am not going to not use fingerprint because some neck beard says it’s very insecure and blah blah blah, I don’t care. The fingerprint is for me to have any sort of authentication prompt.
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Often times, the computer would boot up without recognizing the WiFi adapter (classic).
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The DE that I used, Gnome, was riddled with shitty defaults and random weird behavior, also missing settings from the main settings app in Gnome 43! Not Gnome 1 or 2, 43. Isn’t that a bit embarrassing? I’ve used KDE before, I like that one, though I like the aesthetics and simplicity of Gnome, I wish it just didn’t come with retarded defaults.
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Bluetooth connectivity was hit-or-miss as well, sometimes not getting my device, sometimes not wanting to pair it, etc.
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The app store on either Fedora, Manjaro, Ubuntu or PopOS! all had some kind of missing, broken, or unintuitive functionality that seemed quite obvious how it could be fixed, just that I couldn’t be bothered.
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Screen sharing with audio doesn’t work on Discord, could not find any 1080p60 streaming software that was free or paid or anything. Scoured all of the internet and GitHub, so I’m not switching.
I could go on. Basically there’s many shitty things about it. There are also loads of things I adore about Linux, like fast boot times, lower RAM and swap usage, less background apps, better extensibility and customizability, great development experience etc. I love Linux. However, it feels like work to actually get it to work sometimes, which gets in the way of most people’s intention to just use the God damn computer for stuff they want to use, and it working.
Let people choose what they want, don’t berate people for not choosing what you like, instead educate on what they may be missing out on, but at the end of the day, respect their decision. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
P.S. My laptop wasn’t a DXFGFH Fuckbook 3938WGT or whatever with a Bluetooth adapter from Jupiter, it was a recent, but not bleeding-edge, ASUS VivoBook.
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I have never had any issues getting WLAN, sound, USB or anything to work if i didn’t build on minimal Arch or something super nerdy.
Ubuntu, Debian, Pop!, Mint, all work perfectly well in these regards. Only thing you usually have to do something is for gaming. But even that has become very easy by installing wine and proton. Steam even lets you set force compatibility modes for every game.
Debloating or preparing a clean Windows installation is more of a hassle and requires far more skill and research than setting up a working Linux system. Let alone the growing effort Microsoft puts into forcing users into Microsoft Accounts.
If Linux works for you, Good for you. If Windows works for you, Good for you.
I agree to that, but man, “Linux is too hard to set up” is straight up BS nowadays. And Microsoft and Windows do have many issues that need to be pointed out and criticized.
Proves your lack of knowledge in Windows. You can literally do all Debloat in a single go with Chris Titus’ Windows Debloat Tools, which explains everything clearly. Or you can just “winget list all” then “winget uninstall whatever the hell you want”. I have said this many times, I have been building PCs for over 20 years now. Recently I installed Linux Mint, Zorin OS and I couldn’t get my onboard WiFi 6 Adapter to work properly, it never detects a WiFi 5Ghz network. Unfortunately I have to use an NVIDIA Card for my blender render, and I’m not wasting anyone’s time about what a mess it is. Even with my 6750 XT it was a mess. Now the counter statement will be “It’s the manufacturers fault for not providing proper drivers”. Well as an end consumer, I don’t have time to blame Corporates, I just need to get my work done.
I originally wanted to argue that you lack knowledge about Linux because educating yourself about debloating tools is actually more effort than I ever needed to put into a basic Linux installation with a regular distro, but then I recognized it’s actually you who’s lacking knowledge about Windows.
Occasional issues with hardware drivers is something that happens with Windows, too. Just last week I set up a server for a client and it took me two days to get all the NICs ready due to driver issues. That shit happens. Occasionally. With both Windows and Linux.
Edit: Autocorrect corrected
I never found it difficult to debloat windows. I have helped people via voice calls, it’s that simple. It’s as simple as copying a Terminal Script, Running it, Checking some boxes, then using Winget to uninstall Microsoft bloatware. Installing a regular distro is easy, I have installed Zorin and Linux Mint in many PCs. But some devices just don’t work. For example, a fairly popular fan controller from Corsair, and I have an AX1650, It didn’t work despite trying many distros, after spending hours on forums, I finally got it to work, but it only connects to 2.4Ghz, another example is Blender, Optix rendering works only with Ubuntu with my card. All these things just worked out for me without any hassle in Windows. Your experience says Linux is better. My experience says Windows is better. Both are subjective opinions and not absolute. Sticking to the original point, what works for you is good for you. And for some people, copying a code and checking some boxes is easier than spending hours in forums to get a WiFi Adapter to work (Speaking from my own experience). Doesn’t mean I lack knowledge in Windows.
You’re right, no one cares what other people use, but comparing a debloated Windows install with a proper Linux install is just dumb. A debloated Windows install will never be “perfect” or exist without Microsoft bullshit it literally depends on most of it. And I’m not bashing debloating of Windows here. It’s a fair choice if you have to use Windows and want a bit more of a lightweight experience. Personally I use Linux to use more FOSS software, tiling window managers and having in general a better idea of how my system works. And yes you’re right that that’s not for everyone but all I’m saying is that there should be an option besides amputating a shitty anti-consumer OS. At this point people are comfortable using a borked version of an OS whose main business strategy has become collection of personal data.
Could you elaborate on what makes a “perfect” OS?
You used that word in the original comment, I’m only quoting you, hence the quotes. I don’t think there is a perfect OS, but it sure as hell isn’t debloated Windows.
Something that just has a perfect fit and full transparency. Something that is only done on Open Source Operating Systems.
OpenBSD can be seen as perfect because the code base is very strict and securely written. Making it a nearly bug free OS. But I never used it.
Linux Distros that have a large repository to install apps from can be seen as perfect because you cant create a chaos where you dont know how to uninstall things, as everything is installed through the same package manager. Satisfying for updating too. Something like NixOS, Gentoo or Arch.
I dont see them as the “perfect” but Windows… even debloated. Its still a huge chaos.
What good does a good code base do when it cant run popular games and apps like cod, valorant, siege, league of legends, destiny, adobe apps etc? On windows everything just works even though it is not transparent or open source.
Your windows cant run your android app, IOS app and just doesnt work at all. Hell, I just want to play God of War Ragnarök… Stupid OS. Costs so much and doesnt even run the games and apps I need.
I hope you see yourself how foolish your agument is. “Perfect” doesn’t describe how many apps you currently want to use or love, can run. Especially when this piece of software is deeply hardcoded into an Environment or OS. Even a game developed on Windows may fail to run because the environment is off. You will be very wrong with the statement that “everything just works on Windows” when you will soon buy a specific piece of hardware to start an app because otherwise, it wont trust you.
The topic is about a Perfect OS. Philoshophy of why it may count as Perfect. OpenBSD is an important play here as Microsofts steals its apps for its own convience like ssh and many other standards in Server use. Or the idea of an OS that knows where everything is located and can fully automate itself, etc.
Thr developers of the games choose themselves when an app will run and when not. Or where on which platform. It is out of topic to mention that something is only perfect when you can run your my little pony game.
I just want to play my favourite games and do my work. For that windows just works.
If you feel comfortable having every behaviour and text send to Microsoft. Go for it.
But arguing that Windows should be the number one because my daddy purchased it when you were small or smth should not be the main argument. Windows is shit and terrible. Its cool that capitalism led to create binaries only for Windows but not even that did not stop Linux from being a strong competitor without tracking and spying.
Especially, this stupid Microsoft OS is not even a one size fits all thing but tries very hard to be one.
Linux may just work too depending on what games you play or what work you do.
Over the last few years I’ve installed various flavors of Linux on 4 random machines of different types. Haven’t had trouble with WiFi on any of them. I’ve barely used windows and had piles of trouble with it just about every time.
Cry about the post I guess?
5ghz wifi not working is a known problem. I had the same issue with multiple distros on a hp laptop. But i installed windows 11 and everything worked perfectly, even the trackpad for some reason felt better than in linux. Everything was taken care by windows updates.
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I’ve had this issue many times on my old Dell mini pc.
Indeed. Linux nowadays works out of the box if you choose a distro such as Ubuntu or Fedora.
The Wifi issue thing is an old story which was a reality back in 2005 when I started using Linux.
Wow!! Thanks! I will try to debloat windows now and then replace all linux installations of mine with your suggestion. Which filesystem should I use to support paths > 256 characters on Windows?
Also: How can I bind my favorite Applications to my usual shortcuts? Never found that option in the settings.
Haven’t had trouble with wifi on Linux in like 12 years.
Bluetooth on the other hand…
I haven’t had trouble with windows wifi in… Literally ever. Seriously, wtf are people on about here?
Having supported windows professionally for many years… I have had trouble with windows wifi. Oh lawd have I. Linux is easier.
Linux is a worthy opponent. Windows is a toddler with a Glock.
I recently added windows to a separate drive on my linux machine, when I installed linux everything worked out of the box, meanwhile on windows I had to download the wifi drivers on a separate device and transfer them over to be able to even access the internet
@trailblazer911
I’m not criticising other people’s choices. People can use whatever they prefer 😄I’m not saying Linux is better than Windows.
I’ve used windows all my life, and I have no idea what you’re talking about… I just boot that shit and it’s fine. Never good, but fine. It works.
Things I’d rather read than linux vs windows memes:
I’ve done this. Do not recommend.
*I was extremely drunk on tequila at the time and it was on a dare
Tabasco or Windows 11?
*and
🤢🤮
I was drunk, not insane!
Windows 11 is great. I finally upgraded a month ago. No regrets. Several good handy new features.
Not happy that they’ll eventually shove ads down my throat at which time I’m fully prepared to switch to Linux. Until then, at least at this point, Windows 11 > Windows 10.
Im using ReviOS on my non-gaming/work systems right now as a trial - its windows 11,but strips out all the crapware. So far Im liking it.
Both my friends are on windows 11 and everything got fucked up. Keyboards not working and touchpads not working.
Could it be that the device drivers just aren’t compatible with Win 11? Happened to me once. Super annoying to deal with.
If you’re a tech noob you probably don’t want to deal with this. We come from a world of linux and troubleshooting. People who use Windows probably want the least resistance and to just do work.
What new features are you talking about? Serious question.
File explorer tabs. It’s amazing.
Notepad tabs. Less amazing, still awesome.
I also like the context menu more. It is going to be less confusing even when cluttered.
Way cleaned up ui/ix for notifications.
I’ve only been using it for about a month. This is what I’ve noticed the most.
I hate the context menu so much. What used to be clear and concise with custom plugins is now a mash of nearly identical flat icons and an extra click to get to anything useful.
If you are comfortable editing the registry then you can get the old context menu back without the extra clicks. Searching online for the right key was pretty easy.
It’s a shared computer, so I’m somewhat uncomfortable tinkering with the OS. I would have done that immediately though!
@foggy
I agree. In terms of features 11 is better than 10.I don’t want features…I don’t want assistance. I want a basic os that does what I want and doesn’t do things that it thinks I want.
So edgy, you go girl.
Seriously, someone go pick OP
Okay, I’ll be that guy… Why is “go girl” a dig here?
This is stupid. Don’t do this.
@jaschen
I’ll never do any of them 🤪So… You have a Mac?
I had for about 2 years. Went back to Linux about a year ago and sold the MacBook recently.
Not nearly awful as using a Mac though.
I’m forced to use Win 11 at work, for sEcUrItY.
But I’m actually working within a full-screen Debian VM on HyperV until someone with authority tells me to knock it off.The update has been queued for about a month on my work computer. No. I won’t do it.
Surprised to see so many defending windows 11 here! The ad insertion all throughout the system is SO bad, but what they’ve done to the right-click (context?) Menu was the last straw. Like, most options are hidden underneath the stupid inflated touch-friendly list. Give me a button to disable it (that isn’t in the registry), at least!
The final straw for me though was my VR just quit one day - but I could dual boot back to windows 10 and it was fine somehow 🤷♂️ did a bunch of tricks to get it working to no avail, so I scrapped the windows 11 demo partition and finally gave Linux a try.
VR definitely isn’t ready on Linux (if you’re stuck with an nvidia card like I am, for now) - but considering the OS is built on FOSS and its this feature rich and stable??? Never going back.
@Xttweaponttx
Yeah i agree. The ad stuff is really bad. Having ads in the browser is enough. I don’t want it in my OS. But even all the way back in Windows 7 some people busted Windows in “calling home” when something was entered in the search field in the Start menu. This was caught using the ZoneAlarm firewall.
Unless your company forces you to use citrix VDI so you create a separate VM and install windows for this.
So you can pour Tabasco in your eyes?
Wooooooah. My wife’s new glasses actually came with a tiny bottle of Tabasco sauce (with the eye doctor’s business info printed on it).
I’d give them credit for the meme, but I have a feeling they’re clueless, as they also push “healing salt lamps” in that place.
Her new progressives came out great at least though!
