cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/news@lemmy.world/t/488620

65% of U.S. adults say the way the president is elected should be changed so that the winner of the popular vote nationwide wins the presidency.

  • Rapidcreek
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    9 months ago

    What does the Electoral College breakdown look like on that poll?

    • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
      cake
      OP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      9 months ago

      Why does that matter? The people want a better electoral system, one that treats all votes equally.

      • Rapidcreek
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        9 months ago

        It matters which people want it. Certainly, if the sample was all in Kansas it would be different than if they were in New York.

        • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
          cake
          OP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          20
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          Where people live shouldn’t effect their voice in who is president. And the majority of Americans recognize that.

          The voice of a New Yorker should not be more important than a Kansan, and a Kansan’s voice should not be more important than a New Yorker.

          • Rapidcreek
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            I’m sure those peo0le in the electoral college’s area of influence agree with you…or do they?

            • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
              cake
              OP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              15
              ·
              9 months ago

              The whole point is that the electoral college is a bad way of determining agreement.

              All votes should be equal.

              • Rapidcreek
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                9 months ago

                The whole point of the electoral college is to give equitable representation to every state.

                • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
                  cake
                  OP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  9 months ago

                  But it isn’t equitable because presidential candidates only ever pay attention to swing states.

                  And people should be represented equally. The location of a citizen shouldn’t effect the strength of their voice.

                  Ever single other public office in the U.S is voted by popular vote. If there were problems with it then why don’t we have mini electoral colleges for each seat? The president should be a popular vote, no different than any other office.

                  • Rapidcreek
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    If it was population based, they’d only pay attention to large populations.

                    Don’t get me wrong, I continue not to care.

                • glimse@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Why does the state matter at all…?

                  Why should a vote be counted differently depending on the state it was cast in?

                  • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    Tbf I guess it makes a bit of sense, if say LA, NYC, CHI, and DC all vote to ban cars because they feasibly can and they have the population density to make it happen, some guy in Nebraska who’s nearest neighbor is 15mi away might be upset that he has to get a horse and buggy to buy cold cuts at the costco. On the one hand, fuck him, he should abandon his farm, life, and friends and move to the city (to starve with the rest of us I guess, if all the farmers move), but on the other they probably don’t want to do that which is why they live where they do now.

      • elscallr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        9 months ago

        “Powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution are reserved to the States, or to the People.” -10th Amendment to the United States Constitution

        Restrict the federal government’s power to only those powers explicitly delegated to them by the Constitution and I’d be ok with eliminating the Electoral College.

        • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
          cake
          OP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          Why would that be relevant to switching to a voting system that produces winners that more accurately reflects the will of the people?

          • elscallr@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Because the will of the people in your definition is the will of a handful of cities and our country is too big for that.

            Also it’s the law. It’s literally in the Constitution.

            • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
              cake
              OP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              Because the will of the people in your definition is the will of a handful of cities

              No it’s not. A popular vote is a vote that reflects what the majority want. It has nothing to do with the location of the voter. We should not have the weight of our votes be effected by where we live, like we currently have with the electoral college. My vote should count the same way as anybody else’s, and so should yours.

              Ideally the presidency and all other offices would be handled with STAR or approval voting, as they do not produce spoiler effects, weights by voter location, and help reduce extremist candidates.

              It’s literally in the Constitution.

              And it needs to change because the current system is fundamentally flawed. Our current system weights a voter’s voice by where they live, ignores huge swaths of people, has a spoiler effect, and does nothing to stop extremist candidates.

              People in swing states should not get the only say.

              • jimbolauski@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Swing states don’t get the only say, a vote in an uncontested or lopsided race is still counted. All you are complaining about is you want your state to feel special on election night.

                • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
                  cake
                  OP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  9 months ago

                  Swing states don’t get the only say

                  They effectively do.

                  a vote in an uncontested or lopsided race is still counted.

                  But they are effectively meaningless because California will always vote blue and Texas will always vote red. If you try to vote against your state’s pre-selected candidate your vote basically just gets tossed.

                  Actually it’s worse, since your population contribution actually ends up going towards electors that vote against what you voted for.

                  All you are complaining about is you want your state to feel special on election night.

                  No, I want all votes to be counted equally. I live in a swing state, and unless you live in a tighter swing state, my vote means more than yours ever will. That’s bullshit, and a fundamentally bad design.

                  My state shouldn’t be special. That’s the whole point of getting rid of the electoral college, to ensure all votes are counted equally regardless of origin of state.

                  • jimbolauski@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    Applying your logic to a popular vote, people’s votes won’t matter as the margin will be more than 100,000 their vote makes no difference. Is your goa tol make everyone’s vote not matter?

      • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        9 months ago

        It was designed to be unequal on purpose. The electoral is what keeps us from being ruled by the masses. It should not change.

        • Unaware7013@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          18
          ·
          9 months ago

          So instead we get minority rule. Soooooo much better when the small number of loonies get to derail a functional government with a temper tantrum that ‘the masses’ want.

          It’s a badly designed system, and claiming it’s like this on purpose doesn’t negate how bad the system is. Also, we should not be chained to ideas that came around 250 years ago when other people have improved on the idea and made it less shitty.

          • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Not at all. We are ruled by the states.

            The system is fine. It allows all states to have some say in the process.

            • Unaware7013@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              15
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              Who gives a fuck about the states’ vote? States are just containers for people, and an excuse that the minority loves to use to explain how they get to rule over majority.

              The electoral college is an undemocratic and broken system that makes my vote in a small state worth more than your vote in a bigger state.

              A vote is a vote, and only losers need to remove the vote from the masses to be able to win. It’s literally the only reason there’s been a Republican president since H.W., and it’s no surprise they’re desperate to keep around the undemocratic voting method that allows them to steal elections they didn’t win.

              • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Wow fascist much?

                States are entities under the government with their own laws.

                We are not a democracy fascist. We are a constitutional republic. The founding fathers had no interest in a rule by the masses nor do i.

                Maybe you should learn the history of our government and why it was designed the way it was rather than pushing weird fascist ideology that states don’t matter and only the federal government counts.

                We’d break as a nation quickly under your ideology.

                • Unaware7013@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  9
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Wow fascist much?

                  Lol, you don’t know what words mean and are just trying to sound cool. ProTip: just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it fascist.

                  But I would love to see your melted brain actually explain how ‘every citizen having an equal vote’ resembles fascistic tendencies like only protecting the in group, but that would require an actual understanding of fascism.

                  The founding fathers had no interest in a rule by the masses nor do i.

                  They also didn’t want anyone other than landholding white men to vote, but we’ve realized that’s a stupid idea. The founding fathers didn’t give you a holy document to be reversed, they wrote a framework they expected us to modify.

                  Maybe you should learn the history of our government and why it was designed the way it was rather than pushing weird fascist ideology that states don’t matter and only the federal government counts.

                  Bold of you to think I don’t understand why they did what they did and still think it’s a bad system. Also, again with the uneducated claim of fascism.

                  And you really need to work on your reading comprehension, I said the states’ votes don’t matter, because I think every citizen should vote, not land.

                  We’d break as a nation quickly under your ideology.

                  Ahahaha, you clearly don’t see how the nation is breaking down around us under the current system.

                  • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    I full support only land owning people voting. I have no issue with that at all.

                    It’s obvious you don’t considering you didn’t understand what a stage is or does in our government.

                    I read your fascist take just fine. Why I called you a fascist.

                  • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    God no. I want a constitutional republic. That’s what America is.

                    Personally I wish we’d have more restrictions around voting. The old days of property owners being able to vote is a good idea. I’m not a fan of the poor voting.

            • uis@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              We are ruled by the states.

              Lines on map can’t rule. Only people can.

        • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
          cake
          OP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          9 months ago

          It was designed to be unequal on purpose

          What a convincing argument of its continued existence.

          The electoral is what keeps us from being ruled by the masses.

          It doesn’t do that, all it does is give people in swing states a bigger voice than anybody else, which is a terrible thing for our country.

          Everybody should have a voice, instead it’s just a handful of people in a small set of states.

          • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Doesn’t sound like you’re a conservative or believe in a republic.

            A popular vote would mean the costal areas would have the largest vote and rural areas would get ignored.

            It would quickly lead to a breakup up of the union.

            • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
              cake
              OP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              9 months ago

              Doesn’t sound like you’re a conservative

              I’m not.

              or believe in a republic.

              I do. But ours is in need of reform to make it a better republic that more accurately reflects the will of the people.

              A popular vote would mean the costal areas would have the largest vote and rural areas would get ignored.

              That’s already what happens under the electoral college.

              And every single other electected position in government goes by what is essentially a popular vote, if this was such a problem, all other positions would also be electoral college.

              It would quickly lead to a breakup up of the union.

              The U.S. is the only country that uses an electoral college. All other countries that exist, and are democratic republics use a popular vote and they’re just fine.

              If a popular vote for presidency would cause the destruction of this country, why hasn’t popular vote for all other positions done so already? It’s because this is just fearmongering based on zero evidence. Actually it’s worse, because there is plenty of evidence it wouldn’t do this because of the aforementioned other countries that use popular vote.

              • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Not sure you understand what a republic.

                Every other vote is at a state level. What other position is elected nationally?

                They’re not fine. They’re ok. America is unique and why we are the only super power.

                We only do popular votes at the state level.

                • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
                  cake
                  OP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  What other position is elected nationally?

                  The level at which the election runs is not what I am getting at.

                  We only do popular votes at the state level.

                  And they don’t destroy our country despite our states having a rural/urban divide. So our federal elections should be no different.

                  • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    The level makes a difference. We are a combination of states.

                    Popular vote for the president would destroy our country. It’s not going to happen unless we are ready for the nation to break up. The smaller states will leave.

        • EGG_CREAM@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          9 months ago

          We have the senate, which is needed to pass any law and gives equal representation to the states. We have the supreme court, which can strike down any law as unconstitutional. We have plenty of checks on mob rule without disenfranchising a gigantic swath of voters.

        • Physnrd@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          Then why don’t we institute the “Wyoming Rule?” It’s not “rule by the masses” but much more representative of what the population wants.

          • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            9 months ago

            Or why don’t we just keep the system that works and has kept the country running. Why change something when it works as designed ?

            • PizzaMan@lemmy.world
              cake
              OP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              9 months ago

              Why change something when it works as designed ?

              This argument could unironically have been used to support the continued use of gas chambers in Nazi Germany.

              Just because something is “working” as designed doesn’t mean we should keep using it. If the design is terrible then it needs replaced.

              • Neuromancer@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Godwins law.

                The design is fine. It keeps us stable as a nation.

                Also it’ll never pass. 3/4 of the states will never approve it. It’s a non-starter