In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group.
So, while there may be debate on whether the Holdomor technically meets the definition of a genocide, it still constitutes mass murder.
Would you consider the frequent man-made famines in ireland in the 19th century, including the very famous great famine, an example of ‘genocide’ or mass murder?
Soviets took away all food from Ukrainian villages. They searched for hidden compartments, they probed the ground, so it wasn’t possible to hide food. They didn’t allow picking leftover grains from fields. What is the probability that the famine was unintentional? I doubt it was a big surprise that people without food starve and die.
Canada recognizes its multiple genocides against the First Nations. We have days dedicated to indigenous Canadians and activly trying to put indigenous voices first.
The same can’t be said about China, Russia or the US.
The Holocaust is almost unique in us having an abundance of documentation and evidence of what happened. We have multiple sources, including nazis themselves, giving accurate accounts on both what happened and why. You being willing to compare Holodomor to it is borderline nazi apologia and I would say
You want to go home, and rethink your life
In return if it was not for this being a cheap statement trying to assert dominance where there is none.
Uhm, I do not think you have a good understanding of what I am saying if you think I do not care deeply for the Ukrainian people both then and now. I understand that it is upsetting to debate something as horrible as what happened, but that is also why it is important to try to get the narrative right.
I think it is debatable to some degree and I am not an authority on the subject. I would rather listen to someone more knowledgeable than myself talk about it.
Have you been to the remainders of any concentration camp? Because I have and the scale and deliberateness of the Holocaust is astonishing. I am not sure anything I see in life will ever compare and you should not talk as if there are.
At some point you gotta live with em, you can try to tell a tankie or a Trumper the truth and they’ll nod along politly but still get drunk and spout nonsense. as long as they ain’t starting a militia or beating they wife might as well let the old dog bark
It’s irrelevant if they themselves are in their hearts are evil. People in powerful positions who leverage that power to diminish the historical importance or even existence of a genocide (or, for you, merely an intentional man-made famine directed specifically at a subset of a population deemed undesirable that resulted in millions of deaths) are acting as a force of evil.
Waving your hands and uttering the incantation of “we can’t know if they are evil” doesn’t disappear specific evil actions.
And, good actions don’t “cancel our” the bad ones either. Volunteering at a soup kitchen doesn’t give you a free pass to beat your wife.
They deny the Holodomor and Uyghur genocide. As well as paint Stalin as a benevolent leader.
Removed by mod
Ukraine and the other nations affected consider it a genocide.
I don’t think the developers are evil. However, I do think denying recognition of genocides and atrocities by authoritarian states is evil.
Removed by mod
So do you or do not believe the Holodomor is a genocide?
Removed by mod
It’s a pretty simple question. Was the Holodomor a government-military-led crisis?
Removed by mod
Taken from Wikipedia:
So, while there may be debate on whether the Holdomor technically meets the definition of a genocide, it still constitutes mass murder.
Removed by mod
Yeah, but man made famines still aren’t okay, even if you don’t intent to destroy a people.
Would you consider the frequent man-made famines in ireland in the 19th century, including the very famous great famine, an example of ‘genocide’ or mass murder?
Yes, that is a genocide.
Yes? Especially for the genocide part.
Of course not and I think the most valuable we can learn from history is how to prevent something of the kind from happening again.
That’s why we should steer away from authoritarianism, which is what these communities want.
Soviets took away all food from Ukrainian villages. They searched for hidden compartments, they probed the ground, so it wasn’t possible to hide food. They didn’t allow picking leftover grains from fields. What is the probability that the famine was unintentional? I doubt it was a big surprise that people without food starve and die.
What about Canadian genocide of the indigenous? Surely you count that?
Removed by mod
It is, but so are some others that people seem to miss.
Canada recognizes its multiple genocides against the First Nations. We have days dedicated to indigenous Canadians and activly trying to put indigenous voices first.
The same can’t be said about China, Russia or the US.
Would someone who denied, say, the Holocaust not be a bad person because of their ‘alleged stances’?
You want to go home, and rethink your life.
The Holocaust is almost unique in us having an abundance of documentation and evidence of what happened. We have multiple sources, including nazis themselves, giving accurate accounts on both what happened and why. You being willing to compare Holodomor to it is borderline nazi apologia and I would say
In return if it was not for this being a cheap statement trying to assert dominance where there is none.
Ah, of course, I keep forgetting Ukrainians aren’t people to tankies.
Uhm, I do not think you have a good understanding of what I am saying if you think I do not care deeply for the Ukrainian people both then and now. I understand that it is upsetting to debate something as horrible as what happened, but that is also why it is important to try to get the narrative right.
What do you think the narrative is?
I think it is debatable to some degree and I am not an authority on the subject. I would rather listen to someone more knowledgeable than myself talk about it.
what is that degree?
It is not nazi apologia.
Have you been to the remainders of any concentration camp? Because I have and the scale and deliberateness of the Holocaust is astonishing. I am not sure anything I see in life will ever compare and you should not talk as if there are.
Your point?
Removed by mod
Well, I wasn’t the one who compared it.
But regardless, genocide is bad, full-stop, end of discussion. Denying genocides happened is bad.
At some point you gotta live with em, you can try to tell a tankie or a Trumper the truth and they’ll nod along politly but still get drunk and spout nonsense. as long as they ain’t starting a militia or beating they wife might as well let the old dog bark
It’s irrelevant if they themselves are in their hearts are evil. People in powerful positions who leverage that power to diminish the historical importance or even existence of a genocide (or, for you, merely an intentional man-made famine directed specifically at a subset of a population deemed undesirable that resulted in millions of deaths) are acting as a force of evil.
Waving your hands and uttering the incantation of “we can’t know if they are evil” doesn’t disappear specific evil actions.
And, good actions don’t “cancel our” the bad ones either. Volunteering at a soup kitchen doesn’t give you a free pass to beat your wife.
Each action is evaluated within it’s own context.
Removed by mod