• Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
      6·
      1 month ago

      I would say it is not just capitalism as it happens in other non capitalist societies too. It is corrupt governments/economic systems that who favour big money over protecting and fostering a healthy society. To their own detriment eventually.

      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
        3·
        1 month ago

        I don’t really believe we’ve attempted non-capitalist societies at large scales, such as a pure democracy communism/socialism, but I will say that China claims to but they still have hundreds of millions of homeless, so yeah definitely a problem that exists everywhere.

          • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
            1·
            1 month ago

            It was more of a dictatorship. Property wasn’t shared equally, it was owned by Stallin’s regime.

            It went equally poorly during the Mao regime in China, and it’s going to repeat that problem under Xi Jinping.

            • TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
              2·
              1 month ago

              Have there been any examples of overtly communist societies that haven’t been dictatorships? I just don’t know any off the top of my head.

              • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
                1·
                1 month ago

                I think there might be one going on in a section of India at the moment, but the problem comes with defining what Communism is. Is communism when there is absolutely no Capitalism? Because, probably not, no. Is Communism when a majority of goods and services are publicly owned/payed for? Then maybe, but I think there was actually a period where France was beating the USSR for General Government Public Expenditures as a percent of GDP. I know fuck all about modern day data on the subject.

      • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
        2·
        1 month ago

        you just described capitalism though.

        literally, at its core, the idea that ownership is what provides value-not labor or the soil or whatever.

        literally veneration of big money over everything else.

        • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
          3·
          1 month ago

          Even if ownership was shared equally, people would be forcibly removed from places that other people don’t think they belong. Humans have needs that must be satisfied, and corruption so far has existed wherever satisfaction can be gained. Somebody will always try to con others for more than their fair share. It’s not a problem of overcomplicating things, it’s an issue of not having adequate systems to handle the unique situations of the disadvantaged and needy.

          • melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee
            1·
            1 month ago

            you talk a lot about the conditions of a system that takes a staggering amount of maintenance as if they’re a natural unavoidable absolute of humanity.

            then use that to imply that any of what’s currently going on addresses any of these problems in a way anyone who isn’t high (and apparently some of us who are) would ever accept.

            its not convincing.

        • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
          3·
          1 month ago

          That is where I think a lot of people get it wrong…I am describing centralization and it takes many forms across many political and economic systems.

            • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
              1·
              1 month ago

              You said I just described capitalism and I agree, but really am describing centralization of which capitalism is just only one of many centralized systems that lead to poor outcomes for society if not managed carefully. I see a lot of people blaming capitalism and point to other centralized systems as the solution when they are really just more of the same. People are greedy.