So @EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net had a nice comment here in a previous thread explaining the dynamic of Jewish people’s attitude toward Israel.
I think everyone here understands that it is in Israel’s benefit to (1) conflate antisemitism and antizionism to both silence dissent and (2) foster the perception that antisemitism is increasing, and even (3) encourage actual antisemitism/ally with antisemites so that Jews living in countries around the world feel under threat. Israel can then position itself as the final lifeboat for Jewish people to survive capitalism as it degrades into fascism that will almost certainly target them. Of course fleeing to Israel means becoming a settler-fascist yourself, but this is quite a tough choice to put in front of somebody and there are quite a few mental escape hatches one can use about working to change the system from within once you’re there or whatever.
So the problem we face is this: Under the assumption that the support (enthusiastic or mere tolerance) of Jewish people in the US for Israel is important to maintaining US support for Israel, or at least for maintaining the veneer of legitimacy for this support, how can we convince people to give up their lifeboat? I think this is quite a large ask. Many of us here believe the imperial core is inevitably degrading into fascism under the repetitive two-step of overt slides to the right & neoliberalism slightly arresting this process but making people widely despise electoral politics. This fascism will target Jewish people, and the fascists are perfectly happy to have somewhere to ship Jewish people off to instead of killing them as they build their white ethnostate. Many other minorities will also be targeted but do not have the luxury of a similar lifeboat. How can we square this circle?
It’s not a lifeboat though, Jews are in more danger within Israel than they are outside of it. The country has been a constant war zone for much of its history. Al-aqsa flood has destroyed Israel’s near universal international legitimacy which will never go back to the way it was pre-deluge.
If you were saying Obama era Israel (or bush), maybe this question would be more difficult but as it stands the mirage of the Jewish state has fallen. It’s just a colonial outpost used by western imperialists who can use Jews as cannon fodder instead of their “own people” (yes with all the implications that implies)
They exterminate diaspora Jewry by sending the Jews to Israel. If the evil Muslim horde exterminates all the Jews in Israel, it’s a win for antisemitism and you just eliminated Jews without having to build inconvenient death camps or mass graves.
That is certainly true as it is, but we specifically have to address the fear that it will be inverted in the future. Also I think socialists of all people can empathize with the desire to build the capacity for defense within their own community instead of relying on others to protect them - you see this in a lot of IDF propaganda. Things like yes Israel is under constant attack from all its neighbors but at least we have the IDF to give us a fighting chance.
This can all be undermined by pointing out how dependent Israel is on the US to provide it with weapons and diplomatic cover. I don’t know whether there are plans in Israel for the IDF to become fully self-sufficient in its manufacturing needs but can easily imagine so.
An impossibility. If America has imploded or is no longer supporting Israel, then Israel will shortly cease to exist. But it’s not like you’re going to convince a Zionist of that, as it requires logic you only obtain when you became an anti-imperialist.