• Des [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    23·
    3 months ago

    playing hoi 4 as PRC and clicking “send material support: 80 trucks”

    and for those saying it’s a bribe the only payment i expect is the +5 to relations (which in turn increases my trade influence)

    • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      56·
      3 months ago

      China giving loans to Africa is predatory.

      China buying resources from Africa is extractive.

      China building infrastructure in Africa is a debt trap.

      Now, China donating things to Africa is a bribe.

      What interactions are China allowed to have with Africa?

    • SSJ2Marx@hexbear.netEnglish
      48·
      3 months ago

      I think calling it a “bribe” is needlessly antagonistic. China’s policy towards small governments is pretty clear and consistent - “we don’t care if you’re a colonial puppet, a postcolonial nationalist movement, or religious fundamentalists, we want to do trade with you and we’re willing to offer better deals than the Western countries are, up to and including building the infrastructure needed so that we can do more trade with you in the future.”

      • Rx_Hawk [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        7·
        3 months ago

        Fair, but everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that these investments/loans are often tied to the extraction and export of Africa’s natural resources. (lithium, cobalt, timber, etc.) I understand that global trade is vital for Africa to develop, I just fear people are seeing China’s actions in the region through rose-tinted glasses.

        • FanonFan [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          34·
          3 months ago

          There’s a lot of things pointing to China being less exploitative than Western trade, but it’d be nice if someone did a comprehensive analysis a la the Hickel study.

            • heartheartbreak [fae/faer]@hexbear.netEnglish
              22·
              3 months ago

              China has no power projection, and has never toppled a sovereign country. The global capitalist economy fucking sucks, but China’s strategy is to place itself inside of it and help third world countries develop their own infrastructure. Sadly these countries can only participate in the global economy through the export of raw materials, but through this process of production the wealth that is created is no longer being extracted solely to the monopoly capitalists in the first world and more and more of it is being kept within the countries the wealth has been created in, to further develop their countries.

              If China kept solely to itself, the third world would have no options other than the neoliberalization and debt reforms of the IMF and world bank that has stolen from and destabilized them for decades.

        • LaughingLion [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          47·
          3 months ago

          i made my wife dinner last night and i didnt even charge her for the service. isnt that just a bribe so she will continue to love me and snarf my dong?

        • Vncredleader [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          20·
          3 months ago

          Bribery and aid being used for closer relations are not the same thing. A bribe is under the table, this on its own is serving China’s interests. They don’t need to be slipped some resource extraction money secretly for this to be a good deal for them. It is a country that just kicked out the French and US, is threatened by Nigeria, has a left oriented government, a ton of natural resources previously dominated by western firms, and is in need of allies and arms.

          If China gave them all of these free of charge with no expectation that is still a huge bargain for China. Even thinking cynically it is stupid to treat this as a bribe. Burkina Faso needs this shit, China benefits from breaking western hegemony

        • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          18·
          3 months ago

          Lmao you have placed China in a no-win unfalsifiable position, a common sinophobic and anti-communist tactic.

          China gives material aid for free: Chinese Bribery

          China gives a cheap subsidized loan and even writes off tons of the debt: Chinese Debt Trap

          China cooperates to build infrastructure: Chinese imperialism

          Do you think socialism is when you huddle alone in a corner? Any and all interactions are being labeled by you as imperialist, when in fact imperialism is defined by asymmetrical extraction but everything China does is mutually consensual and mutually beneficial

        • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          21·
          3 months ago

          Notice something in the first one? The involved ones got jailed by Ghana. China did not prevent them facing justice. Almost as if the state of China is not looting Africa.

          The one named company in the second article is from HK, where the PRC has limited authority regarding stuff as that.

          China is not utopia, but the PRC has shown time and time again their willingness to comply with local law. If one of its citizens does illigal shit somewhere, it let’s the local authorities handle it and does not demand special treatment. A good example is your first link.

        • pastalicious [he/him, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
          19·
          3 months ago

          You may find the historical material realities of Ghana and Burkina Faso are drastically different as are their relationships with the “international rules based order” that determines legality and legitimacy in the eyes of the West.

        • Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          17·
          3 months ago

          Yes Chinese private firms often do shady shit, that’s bad but it’s also sadly part of the process with the Dengist strategy of using capitalist trade to develop productive forces so socialism can compete with the West.

          Meanwhile the Chinese state provides a lot of aid to developing nations targeted by the west, like Cuba, Bolivia and several African nations. These do also benefit China by giving them more training partners but it’s not purely extractive, their aid also helps them develop their own productive forces so their economies aren’t purely based on resource extraction and export and so can they can more resilience against western sanctions. I can’t find the video now for the life of me, but there is one out there of some western official trying to talk to an African politician about “Chinese imperialism” and the African guy is just like “when you come here we get lectures, when China comes we get a port”.