The inner circle so to speak

  • Hot Saucerman@lemmy.mlEnglish
    106·
    11 months ago

    The thing is, ownership of any of these can change at any time. Bitwarden, Mullvad, and Tutanota could be sold to very different owners.

    That is up to and including something like uBlock Origin, which only has one developer, and would suddenly be very different if that developer died and the project had to be forked.

    You can never trust that the person who takes on the reigns has the same ideals as the people running them now.

    Hell, Mullvad was abused to the point they removed access to Port Forwarding on their VPN service, which has led to many people needing to switch to crummier, shadier VPNs that still offer port forwarding access. That’s not Mullvad’s fault, but it is an example of them having to change their philosophy and what they offer because of abuse.

    Trust should only go so far, and loss of trust should be very easy. There’s not a good reason to keep “trusting” something when it has fundamentally changed from its initial ideals.

    • r00ty@kbin.life
      24·
      11 months ago

      Hell, Mullvad was abused to the point they removed access to Port Forwarding on their VPN service, which has led to many people needing to switch to crummier, shadier VPNs that still offer port forwarding access. That’s not Mullvad’s fault, but it is an example of them having to change their philosophy and what they offer because of abuse.

      It’s a real shame too. It was a nice feature.

    • Rayspekt@kbin.social
      11·
      11 months ago

      Hell, Mullvad was abused to the point they removed access to Port Forwarding on their VPN service, which has led to many people needing to switch to crummier, shadier VPNs that still offer port forwarding access.

      Could you explain what happened?

      • Hot Saucerman@lemmy.mlEnglish
        29·
        11 months ago

        As clear as I can make it out, it seems like it was related to a search warrant that was executed on Mullvad.

        https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/4/20/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-search-warrant-customer-data-not-compromised/

        Because just a little over a month after the news of the failed raid, there was news of them removing port forwarding.

        https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/5/29/removing-the-support-for-forwarded-ports/

        Emphasis mine.

        Unfortunately port forwarding also allows avenues for abuse, which in some cases can result in a far worse experience for the majority of our users. Regrettably individuals have frequently used this feature to host undesirable content and malicious services from ports that are forwarded from our VPN servers. This has led to law enforcement contacting us, our IPs getting blacklisted, and hosting providers cancelling us.

        The result is that it affects the majority of our users negatively, because they cannot use our service without having services being blocked.

        The abuse vector of port forwarding has caught up with us, and today we announce the discontinuation of support for port forwarding. This means that if you are a user of forwarded ports, you will not be able to add or modify the ports you have in use.

      • apt_install_coffee@lemmy.ml
        5·
        11 months ago

        They made a smart call that has probably increased the long term privacy of their users.

        People were using port forwarding to host illegal shit, and governments were getting pissed off about it. Mullvad has been able to prove in court that they don’t keep logs, but that’s not a perfect deterrent; a properly motivated government, perhaps if somebody is using Mullvad to host CSAM, might attempt to legally force Mullvad to put logging in and add anti-canary clauses.

        Preventing port forwarding keeps customers as consumers rather than hosters, and avoids this issue.

    • Galli [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      8·
      11 months ago

      This is true and people should always be mindful of this. Additionally you should consider not just the ownership of the companies but also the infrastructure they rely on such as their rented servers, payment processors, on-site staff etc. However commercial VPNs remain a convenient compromise for many use cases. These services are probably fine for your shitposing needs but should not be relied upon for activism for instance.

    • machiabelly [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      6·
      11 months ago

      I used to use proton until I saw them give info for a warrant. After that I gave up on the VPN thing. If I lived in a country with limited streaming options I might use them but shrug-outta-hecks

  • Qkall@lemmy.ml
    51·
    11 months ago

    bruh, i can’t be the only one confused why state farm’s drive safe app was being touted…

    • Udonezo@lemmy.world
      7·
      11 months ago

      allows their car insurance to spy on their location data and driving habits Is curious about privacy

      Okay buddy

  • Fazoo@lemmy.ml
    35·
    11 months ago

    Why do you trust a Germany based secure email over something like Proton? At least Mullvad is Sweden based.

  • darcy@sh.itjust.works
    23·
    11 months ago

    keepass > bitwarden

    vpn providers should be reviewed regularly

    email is inherintly insecure/non-private, self hosted is best

    • ArcticLynx@feddit.deEnglish
      9·
      11 months ago

      why do you prefer keepass to bitwarden? has it better privacy or is it just a personal preference because you like the UI more for example?

      • darcy@sh.itjust.works
        20·
        11 months ago

        keepass is a different paradigm. it uses a locally encrypted file. many frontends for it (use keepassxc and keepassdx). dont have to rely on some 3rd party, even if they say they have e2ee. theres no better privacy (and security) for an app than not using it with the internet. im not too concerned about ui for pw manager personally, the less time i spend w it unlocked the better. only (slight) problem for me: multi device usage (i just copy the file onto my phone occasionally). general rule of thumb: if it can be selfhosted, it is best to.

        i think bitwarden is the best one of its type, it comes down to your needs and threat model

        • ErwinLottemann@feddit.de
          6·
          11 months ago

          You can selfhost bitwarden, there’s also vaultwarden, an open bitearden api implementation. You could host this on an internal-only server. But you also can sync your single password file with a lot devices and use keepass, I just find that a bit annoying. You also cannot share some passwords with your relatives easily that way.

          • Radioactive Radio@lemm.ee
            2·
            11 months ago

            Hey it’s fine if you trust them, it’s a very convenient service and from what I found it’s pretty secure, since there’s no way to recover logins if you forget your master pass. But i personally don’t like the idea of having passwords on someone else’s server and I’m too stoopid to set-up my own instance on a docker container server thingy. Syncthing just works for me, got GUI and everything.

      • Rooki@lemmy.world
        1·
        11 months ago

        its more user friendly. Just a file you have to have. You can encrypt that double and tripple on bitwarden nope.

  • whileloop@lemmy.world
    18·
    11 months ago

    KeePass is also a good password manager, it’s open source and you get to store the password database anywhere you like.

    • Almace@kbin.social
      21·
      11 months ago

      You do also kind of put all your eggs in one basket so to speak though. I don’t have anything against Proton and the pricing makes sense if you value all their services and pay for Ultimate (though by my estimate, less sense if you are only looking for a smaller handful of services). However, if you go fully into Proton for everything, you’re placing your trust into an entire stack of services and it can end up a single point of failure.

      • retro@infosec.pub
        1·
        11 months ago

        I trust their privacy claims but if you backup your email and calendar you can just as easily move elsewhere if Proton does go down. Having only one provider can make things a lot easier to manage.

    • Cliffjumper@lemmy.world
      1·
      11 months ago

      Still can’t bring myself to use proton pass. I’ll be much happier when proton drive better integrates with desktop machines as well but calendar, VPN, email and the bonus simplelogin premium are way too useful.

    • twei@feddit.de
      12·
      11 months ago

      Tutanota is one of the few good E-Mail services that i can think of, what’s so terrible about tutanota?

          • twei@feddit.de
            1·
            11 months ago

            I already know both Videos and i am still convinced that ProtonMail is the best Mail provider. Them giving the IP Address to the French authorities “for no reason” is a claim I hear parroted a lot, but it’s simply not true. Also, if the French activist had used Tor or even just the free tier of ProtonVPN they wouldn’t have to worry about any of that, so it all comes down to bad opsec

              • twei@feddit.de
                1·
                11 months ago

                Proton wouldn’t have to disclose the real IP from anyone using their VPN, you can read their Blog-Post on that here. I think they fixed the next point, but why wouldn’t it redirect to a clearnet site? You are already using tor, hopefully on the “Most Secure” setting, so why would you care? VPNs can be secure (like proton or, even better, mullvad), but I agree that most of them aren’t. I also agree that E-Mail was not designed to be secure, but that doesn’t mean that it can’t be. PGP exists, and since proton is heavily pushing for you to use it, I think it’s okay to use their service.

                Cock.li is a nice Mail provider with a not so nice owner and while the philosophy behind it is pretty cool it’s AFAIK also on every spamlist possible. Also the domains are, aside from airmail.cc, just not good for any professional usecase

      • sabreW4K3@lemmy.tf
        4·
        11 months ago

        The lock in and the lies. The first being your inability to read your emails in another client. Second is the lie that it’s secure when email is inherently not second. It’s making a false promise.

        Oh and I forgot the new issue, being that you can’t zoom mail, which is infuriating.

        Disclaimer: I pay for Tutanota and have for a few years. But I’m tired of it. Will switch to another season once K-9 becomes Thunderbird for Android

  • Mr_1077@monero.townEnglish
    7·
    11 months ago

    For anyone still using Mullvad and wants port-forwarding, I recommend AzireVPN.

    Good list! I use all of them too.

  • GVasco@discuss.tchncs.de
    6·
    11 months ago

    I might swap bitwarden by passbolt as it uses a more recent programming stack, although vaultwarden looks to be a good alternative too.

  • dzervas@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    11 months ago

    just a side note for everyone out there that uses bitwarden: you can reset your password with just your email. that means the admin can see your passwords. The only 3 upstream password managers that don’t have that “feature” are 1Password, lastpass and keypass (not counting gpg-based script in bash n friends). Lastpass is obviously a mediocre solution (too many breaches), keypass isn’t for everyone (UX). 1Password is a very solid solution and it has public security audits

    I’ve got nothing with agilebits/1Password - i just use it after spending days researching (also I’m a former IT security engineer)

    • Waryle@jlai.lu
      14·
      11 months ago

      It’s so out of context it’s almost untrue.

      Bitwarden can’t find or change your password, and their admins absolutely can’t see them either.

      You’re talking about the “admin password reset” feature offered to organizations (and which doesn’t concern lambdas users at all), which must be explicitly activated and which allows admins not to see our password, but to trigger a password reset with notification to the user.

      Once the password has been reset, all you have to do is change it, and nobody else has access to it.

      https://bitwarden.com/help/forgot-master-password/

      https://bitwarden.com/help/account-recovery/

    • biscuits@lemmy.sdfeu.org
      4·
      11 months ago

      If that were true that it wouldn’t be just a side note because it would render the whole Bitwarden product useless. It’d pretty much mean that they are not encrypting passwords at all, so even worse than infamous LastPass. But as the other comment pointed out, it’s pretty much not like that.

    • BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
      3·
      11 months ago

      No you can’t reset your bitwarden master password with just an email. I invite you to try and let is know how it went.

    • eeeeyayyyy@lemm.ee
      1·
      11 months ago

      Been using Bitwarden since it was on horrendous light blue theme, and I’m fully aware that users cannot easily reset their master password through email ever since.